Reality Check - health care

[Windancer]

couldn't we open up the insurance market so we could buy it across state lines.. And cause more competition ? Aren't there other things we can do besides a 'government run' system? The government run systems that we have now have proven not to work, and are broke. (Medicare/medicaid)
As far as the 30 million, alot of them are at an age where they feel they do not need Insurance, and opt not to get it...Anyone of low income qualifies for medicaid and gets it free. The ones in between have the problem.....if hit with a huge sickness, and no insurance for what ever reason. If you are hit with a big bill, the hospital will let you pay at what ever rate you can afford. I had a friend who paid 5.00 a month, They know you may never pay it off. This evens out with the ones who have good insurance policies. I can tell you, Medicaid and Medicare pay a fraction of the cost...a small fraction....and It HAS to be accepted. Another thing that should be done is to put a cap on lawsuits directed at hospitals and doctors. Their premiums are emense,,,,,,and the cost is forwarded to consumers.. obama says he does not want to do that for some reason. We just dont want the GOVERNMENT running our lives and enslaving us..We so not want socialism....at least over half of us don't.

 

[Angela]

care system.. I have a friend that is a citizen of Canada...She had such a serious heaart condition that the Dr didn't even recommend she fly up there. "

I am trying to understand all this reform for you all.
However, Julie, why wasn't your Canadian citizen friend treated in the U.S. It sounds like she was in the States when she got sick, is that right?

Because I got to the U.S. frequently I have private insurance to cover any medical eventuality that may arise down there as the B.C. plan does not cover out of country.

Did your friend not have extra medical coverage?

 

[Windancer]

The thing that makes me bitter, is the group of people who sit on their butts with government housing/food/etc and feel entitled for some unknown reason...and simply refuse to work. I don't get it.....
Secondly.....If congress even agrees to go on the same plan they want us to have....I would go along peacfully...obama promised we would have the same plan the government has...obviously not.. This will still be a system of the 'Haves' get the quick treatment, while the rest of us wait....because we don't have the cash to lay out. I see people who get on a program, and go to the doctor continuesly for any little thing, because it is free....that is what will happen...Doctors now have a hard time sorting out the ones who are really sick, and the ones who like the attention of going to the doctor.

 

[Windancer]

Angela....my friend who is Canadian, went back for medical treatment because her husband is a jerk and said he would not let her spend the money here,

 

[Sherry1999]

Julie, we do agree that something has to be done about the people who take advantage of the system...I know there are plenty out there...however, I do not want the children of those people to go with out a meal, health care or a roof over their heads because their parents are loosers... There are just no easy answers.

I do not think people will go to the doc for every little thing... no more than they go to the er for a ear ache now.

 

[Angela]

Angela....my friend who is Canadian, went back for medical treatment because her husband is a jerk and said he would not let her spend the money here,

You know, I am sorry for your friend that her husband can influence her like that.
I pay about $130 Cdn yearly for private insurance for out of country trips, I think that covers about U.S.2 million in health costs should I need it. That's not exactly much for "husband" to pay, is it!!

Hmmm, wonder if your friend pays in to the Quebec medical plan??

 

[KodysGrandma]

Sherry- From practical experience I have to disagree about the "going to the doctor thing". WAY back in 1959 I worked for 2 GPs in a small town. If we could have determined over the phone who was legitimately sick and who justs needed some "social life" we could have spared everyone time, effort and money. It was impossible. We had one women who insisted every Friday that she was close to death and there was NOTHING wrong with her. My husband's Mother was like that 60 years ago and kept the family broke paying her bills. There are lots of people who run to the doctor's at the least little thing. They do it a lot less if they have to pay for it directly. With insurance they get the feeling it's free.

The idea that something you get from the govt or insurance is free has become VERY PERVASIVE. We had an issue with a county commissioner here years ago because he kept telling people the county could get "FREE" buses from the federal government. TANSTAAFL- There "ain't" no such thing as a free lunch. It is of major importance to always remember that.

There are lots of other things that could be initiated that would help I'm sure, if only people applied a little thought to the process. Limit govt provided insurance to the catastrophic situation, which could be pegged to income levels. Allow purchase of insurance that doesn't contain provisions for all sort of things you won't use or don't need- chiropractors, substance abuse, maternity (I'm 71, not likely) etc. There COULD be lots of possibilities if everyone would just stop and THINK of solutions other than running to the government to hold their hand and solve all their life problems.

 

[lola]

Lola..It is too bad you are 'laughing' at what you call our 'freak outs'.....A lot of us here in this country are very unhappy with the bail outs...the fed printing money...and now a government run health care system.. I have a friend that is a citizen of Canada...She had such a serious heaart condition that the Dr didn't even recommend she fly up there. She finally got there, in a wheel chair half comotose, went into the emergency room where they 'stabalized' her. And promptly showed her the door. She said "Aren't you going to find out what is wrong with me?" They said..."Oh no, you are stable now, so you have to go to your GP." She said "I don't have a GP" They said to get on the list for one.....The story goes on...but we don't want that here. We have the best health care in the world....If you need an MRI you get it THAT DAY...The government health care system has to do with covering everyone....I'm not sure about the illegals....But there is NO ONE in this country now, that would not get full care and treatment if needed whether they had insurance or not....If you go to an emergency room, you will not be turned away..Even Illegals. So before you 'make fun' of our protestors, walk in our shoes...We don't want to suffer a year for a knee replacement either. I am gald you like your Canadian system. What is your tax rate?
"own a country's health care, and you own the people"

I wasn't really mocking the people with legit concerns, I mean, our system isn't perfect, no system is perfect in fact, but when people start inventing things it panics people unnecesarily. These death panels that i've heard about on fox and other news shows are just insane, and the sad thing is that people hear this and simply embelish, not research to find out if it is true, because of course, the news must be true..

 

[KodysGrandma]

Oh yes, one more thing that I think it very important. The fee, is the fee, is the fee. There should be no discounts for anyone. That way the people without insurance don't get stuck with a huge bill and the people on Medicare, Medicaid or with other insurance don't have their fees cut. The way it works now, the people who can least afford it have the highest fees. NUTS. I one time got 50% off my glasses because I had health insurance. Now mind you, my health insurance paid NO benefit for glasses but they gave me 50% anyway. That makes no sense, at least to me. Medical providers will have to price according to what is realistic, rather like the grocery store. If the price is too high one place, you go somewhere else. Real obvious pricing that the purchaser can see, up front, just like the label in the grocery store. Beside the code on every lab slip, the price. When you discuss surgery with the doctor an estimate of his fee (which obviously has to have some wiggle room in it) and then an estimate from the hospital (again some wiggle for unforseen medical events). People has to be aware of what they are buying. Medical purchases are buying decisions just like any other commodity or even money. If you especially like your doctor or hospital and they cost more than you determine if it's worth it to you.

 

[Windancer]

The death panel thing came about because obamas czar stated on public television that people above a certain age would just have to accept certain conditions as a part of aging, and not treat them.....Heart stints, etc. No one ever talked about euthanasia...that is crazy. But ultimately that would lead to an early death. Another Czar has a graph for treatment depending apon age...babies prior to 2 years and the elderly...The productive group, teen to 40, would get the most treatment..
As far as the people living on the dole and their children eating...In my county you can purchse food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar every month,,The parents want to go to the bar....They are not focused on their children. We also have people who claim many more dependents than they have..The country does not seem to care. It is a crazy entitlement system.....

 

[KodysGrandma]

And since I'm on my soapbox we need to figure out a way to NOT penalize children of idiots but keep the idiots from having more and more children. This is a common use of the term idiot- those people who milk the system, not literally people who are intellectually impaired.

Like Windancer I'm damn tired of it and I'm tired of the argument that we have to keep it up because of the children. There has simply got to be a better solution than having some continually milk the others and sit on their duffs. I personally would cap payments at 1 child. When you have that child and get assistance you also get information about how NOT to have any more and help to accomplish that. You are not prohibited from doing so, you simply won't get any more money for it. I bet that would prevent somewhere in the neighborhood of 75%. If you, for religious reasons, don't want to use some sort of "artificial" means of prevention then just don't have sex. Relatively simple for most situations. Rape victim- obviously doesn't apply if you can substantiate the rape. Others situations to be worked out as the policy is discussed.

 

[lola]

Well,t he wlefare thing up here works kind of the same.. girls get pregnant at 16 so they can collect welfare and live with mom and collect a check because they are a parent, then when the check comes at the begining of the month, off to the casino with all the money, the kids don't get anything (not everywhere, but in the lower class neighbourhoods). Don't go to the montreal casino on the first or second of the month, it's packed.

I honestly don't think any system can ever be perfect. People are jumping the gun on a lot of things, news commentators are critquing the bill and they never read it. So far I think i've heard the "death panel" thing from sarah palin, fox, cnn.. who knows how many others because I get most of my news off of highlights online, but WOW.

It's like the case of a woman from Canada who did an anti-health care reform ad for the states stating that she found a lump on her neck and they did testing up here(biopsy I believe), and then scheduled her for surgery like 9 or 12 months down the line. The truth was the lump was nothing but a benign cyst, but she freaked out and went to the states to have it removed as quickly as possible, and ended up with a huge medical bill for essentially nothing, but they don't say that, oh no.. just a lump that needed to be removed.

 

[Sherry1999]

Okay... so how do you control the abuse with out making the children suffer???? That is as hard a question to answer and the one on the current health care... what to do?? All systems are flawed. The answer would be to help those people get off government assistance...wouldn't it? They make it hard to get off of too. That is why families live on it one generation to the next...live on it....and with the current unemployment rate...wow... the numbers are staggering... what do you do with Joe the plumber with 5 kids...that he use to be able to afford to feed them...through no fault of his own he is now unemployed?? Does he qualify? There are always special circumstances...it will never fit everyone and people will fall through the cracks... I personally would like to see something done about all the people living on the streets...vast majority of them are mentally ill. Also seems a contradection to me from those of you who want less gov't interference are infavor of being told how many children you can have... or that if you go ovewr the limit that there will be no help for them...Alot of people on the right are against abortion...don't ya think those numbers might increase a hell of a lot...for those over the limit on children...Maybe there would be fewer children with healthcare and free birthcontrol??

 

[Windancer]

Anyone can get free birth controll pills....you need to TAKE them....the "Passion over came me" excuse does not cut it...Then using abortion for birth controll. It is a 'no responsibility' society...The governmnet will take care of everything..As for Emmies post..That is a program that is all ready in place, and much abused.. limiting numbers might help..but I doubt it.. There are not enough foster homes and social workers to deal with the situation. The children ARE suffering..even with the handout..

 

[KodysGrandma]

What I'm proposing cannot be applied to those currently in the system. It could only be applied going forward. A record of having been in the workforce and paying taxes then being laid off requires a different approach. As for the "extra" children, if they are not looked after take them. Over our history lots of kids have grown up in orphanages (and that's what those kids are mentally, if not physically) and done very well- Dave Thomas of Wendys for one. No, I agree, it's not ideal but most things aren't but I do think it beats the heck out of benign neglect. Put the money going to the "parents" toward a good home with well paid staff to help.

I'm tired of being blackmailed "for the sake of the children". There are other more useful approaches. They simply have to be looked for. Put your thoughts in gear and find them.

 

[ina/puusty]

I dearly wish that we did have free contraception items..in every school/church/Dr. office etc. If..we got the preg. rates to diminish..we would be cutting costs..left and right! Abortion to be avail upon request..but those that have a problem either rel. or phil. fine..they do not need..to 'participate'. Simple really..I do not mandate what you do..with your body..and your views..do not mandate what I do with my body. We certainly do not have mormons standing outside ..Church A. and directing the arriving flock..towards ..Church B..do we? I rest my case..personal..choice. ina n HB n Kesa

 

[KodysGrandma]

Whoopee Ina, another area of agreement at least as to their availability if not cost. The key of course is as Julie pointed out to use it. Frankly I never understood "accidents". I came of age with birth control pills, started on Enovid 20 mg- damn near had a stroke as a result 15 years later but.--- I never forgot, not once in the over 15 years I was on them. I have woken up in the middle of the night with the paniced thought- "I forgot" but it was strong enough in my mind that it did wake me up. Women used to tell me they forgot- my response, if you don't want to be pregnant badly enough you don't forget. I have no sympathy.

 

[Sherry1999]

I agree Ina... free birthcontol and information for anyone and everyone who wants it...

Black mail....really... well I am sorry if you are tired of it...I do not use it as black mail... it is a very improtant piece of the puzzle and answer as far as I am concerned.... they can not be ignored... what USEFUL approach would you suggest????Gov't just can not un around and take them with no where to put them and our foster care system sucks...

 

[Windancer]

You can get free birth controll, at least in my state, from county health centers, and planned parenthood.....or very little cost......I agree we do not have the right to tell someone what to do with their body,,,,,,but we are talking about a seperate living individual here......If you have ever seen a color 3 D ultrasound of a very young fetus, you would think differently.. I have always wondered what the up roar would be if we dialated a dogs uterus, stuck a knife up there and killed the puppies, then pulled them out. Sorry..I have to look in the mirror.

 

[KodysGrandma]

Back to local options, the local area, probably county in most cases decides how to handle - foster care with careful oversight, orphanages, some other option- group home, church run facility etc. Lets use our heads and come up with something practical. Yes, the people who have child after child are blackmailing the rest of us. Damn few of them don't know how to prevent and they danged sure know how to get checks from the govt. Since many do not look after the children I don't know how you can call it anything else. They may do it to a group- taxpayers, rather than an individual but it's still blackmail. You may simply not have been paying long enough and hard enough to be annoyed, upset and Ina's favorite taboo word- angry.