Orijen revisited

[AsOctoberFalls]

With the Orijen, I'm curious how much to feed a puppy. My pup is soooo skinny but also very short.... at 9 months old, he's only about 65 lbs. I can feel all his ribs. I can't tell if he looks too skinny because of all his hair. I've been trying to put weight on him... he was getting about 1.5 cups of Orijen 2x per day, plus generous treats. I've upped it to 2 cups 2x per day, and now his stool is very soft and there is a lot of it.... which makes me think he's getting too much food. Any ideas?

 

[NessaM]

Pooka gets 5 to 6 cups of the Orijen daily - he's a bit over a year and a half old and about 160 lbs. When we first switched him to Orijen I cut him back to 4 cups a day and he lost 5 pounds in a week or two. He's got a really determined metabolism! Anything over 6 cups and his stools get loose. Maybe give Burgess a little bit longer on the higher portion and see if his tummy adjusts - his stools might firm up. Or if possible you can try feeding him three times a day.

He does sound like he's on the skinny side - not to make comparisons but at the same age Pooka was twice Burgess' weight. It may be though that he's just got a slight build, like Nanook OUGHT to have. (Nanook is short too.) Some newfs stay really skinny for their first few years and then start to fill out between two and three...Your breeder if you have one is a good resource for you - call him or her up and ask if the height/weight sounds consistent with the other puppies in the litter or with the growth of his parents. If your breeder falls through, your vet is another good resource for determining if Burgess needs to gain weight.

Nanook on the other hand gets 2 cups of the Orijen daily - he's two and a half years old and about 145 lbs. He's still on his diet, but it's not working terribly well at the moment. Really, I'd much rather have a dog be too skinny than too fat! Pooka is much easier to adjust foodwise than Nanook.

Here is a handy scale on which you can rate your dog:

1 – Ribs, lower back vertebrae, pelvic bones, and all bony prominences evident from a distance. No discernible body fat. Obvious loss of muscle mass.

2 – Ribs, lower back vertebrae, and pelvic bones easily visible. No fatty areas felt. Some evidence of other bony prominence. Minimal loss of muscle mass.

3 – Ribs easily felt and may be visible with no fatty areas felt. Tops of lower back vertebrae visible. Pelvic bones becoming prominent. Obvious waist and abdominal tuck.

4 – IDEAL: Ribs easily felt with minimal fat covering (i.e. they feel slightly padded – think of feeling a hand knuckle through a thin cloth glove). Waist easily noted when viewed from above. Abdominal tuck evident.

5 – IDEAL: Ribs easily felt without excess fat covering. Waist observed behind ribs when viewed from above. Abdoment tucked up when viewed from side.

 

[M & M's Mom Linda]

I'm so glad you posted...Nessa as we are switching the boys (from raw...Marcus...Max, Eagle Pack dry and Merrick canned) to Orijen. Marcus has lost 5 lbs on raw that he cannot afford to lose...being so skinny we can count ribs, backbone, breastbone, pelvic etc. The hardest thing will be to convince Barry not to "overfeed" as he still thinks "more is better". Marcus is about 160 lbs...of course the same age as Pooka so this gives me a good guideline what amount to feed him. As I mentioned...very thin but tall. Max is a great weight...145lbs... but until 10 months ago he was 125 lbs. His chest dropped, his body widened but he gained bulk without getting fat. He matured...body and mind:groovy:
Hopefully we will last until Marcus "matures"....maybe at 4:LMAO:

 

[NessaM]

Linda - how was feeding raw? I've been seriously considering it for Nanook since I can't seem to get him to lose weight on a decent food, and can't bear to put him back on the crap food again even if it WILL make him lose weight. *sigh*

Pooka would stay on the Orijen - no reason to switch him you wouldn't BELIEVE the coat he's got right now. I can't stop touching it. It's like a really fine fox fur. Totally delicious.

PS I showed that picture of Marcus in the chair to Sandy and he said, "where was that taken???" because he didn't recognize the chair but thought for sure it was Pooka!

 

[M & M's Mom Linda]

Nessa...feeding "raw" was fine, even with traveling but we are feeding a prepared raw...this is their website. The expense is crazy...made worst because Marcus is so big. He has been on this for 4 months.
http://www.morigins.com/.
We have researched feeding raw "naturally" and preparing our own but I worry we won't have the time to do it. The skin eruptions have been much better (this could be because we stopped water training) but he still is getting ear infections. Poops are great...once a day, very small.
I'd really like to feed both boys the same food...just to make it easier.
I like Orijens because it is grain-free...and my gut tells me that grains could be the culprit with Marcus's allergies.

Tell Sandy...Barry is the same...I will email a picture of Pooka and being a typical male doesn't look at the caption but asks "when did you take that picture of Marcus?"

 

[NessaM]

Linda I hope Marcus tolerates the Orijen! Bojie tried it when we were all staying in VA - two meals cold turkey from the canidae that is giving him the runs, and his poops were almost instantly half the size, 3x less frequent, and solid, solid, solid. For some dogs it works miracles!

With my guys the main difference I noticed was the frequency and size of the stools. They went from pooping 3 to 4 times a day to pooping twice a day. Their poops before switching were cow-patty-esque more often than not, and HUGE - now I can't tell their poops apart from my mother's golden retriever's.

 

[Bojie]

Well, only TWO meals of the new Orijen, and Bojie's poops are just like they were when we tried it in Va HORRAY! No more cow pies

 

[NessaM]

Yay Bojie!

 

[Charlie'sMom]

Charlie has to be on a grain free product due to allergies ... I was on the regular Orijen for a year, then switched to 6 fish ... OMG it made a huge difference in his coat, now that the thicker winter undercoat is coming in his fur is so thick, soft and shiny ... he looks and feels 100 times better ... you can't help running your fingers over it ... we are at about 5 cups a day ... but he gets lots of extras (leftover stew etc) since he is still a tad bit too skinny.

 

[charityd]

The more I read about Orijen; the more I can't wait to switch. We have about 4 more months to go on the old formula Canidae.

 

[HannahCB]

Can i just ask what is a cup in grams or ounces?? just wondering if anybody knew

 

[ozzysma]

a cup is 8 ounces.

 

[HannahCB]

ooh thanks, thats such a help when im reading posts and trying to judge amounts of food people feed

 

[drulzelot]

When we brought Aquila home, she weighed about 100 lbs. We gradually switched her from her old food (which had a lot of corn) to Nutro lamb and rice, then to the grain-free Orijen. The gentle transition took really well, and when I brought her to the vet for her pre-spay work-up a month after we brought her home, she weighed 120. she has maintained that weight, in spite of deviously devouring the entire contents of a five lb. bag (on three seperate occasions, no less). I can say that five lbs of Orijen in one sitting will produce the runs. :nono:
Orion has maintained his weight at 150, and being such a picky eater, he likes the Orijen. I buy in five lb bags for two reasons: one, I buy both regular and six fish and alternate them; and two, to keep Aquila from eating 35 lbs. Both look great. Aquila looks very fit, but I keep her fur trimmed short (to show off her girlish figure, of course) because he coat is so fine she's snarls like the dickens and hates being brushed. Orion's coat is very long, he's prefers the shaggy look, but loves to be brushed daily. Nessa's weight descriptions are excellent and very helpful, but if your newfie has a thick and long coat, it's hard to tell visually if he's too fat. Orion looks much bigger than he is, so I'd suggest checking how they look when wet. Then you can tell better.

 

[Peter Maniate]

Can i just ask what is a cup in grams or ounces?? just wondering if anybody knew

You seem to be asking for a weight measure but the standard "cup" that is used to measure dog kibble in North America is a volume measure. Confusion is caused because the term "ounce" is used in the imperial and American systems as both a volume measure as well as a weight measure.

The eight ounce cup that Patti refers to is approximately 250 ml and for Orijen 6-Fish that eight ounce cup by volume weighs about four ounces. Since kibble density varies from formula to formula, the weight of a cup of feed will also vary from formula to formula.

 

[HannahCB]

arr right thanks i get it now!! im feeding mine 400grams of food a day weighed out by scales you see and not cups as we dont measure in cups hence the confusion lol. Thanks for setting me straight

I just worked out the 4ounces is 112grams so twice a day would be 224 which is considerably less than what i feed now. Can i just ask how exactly do people work out the correct amount of food to give i know its mainly on weight but as some are feeding one cup twice a day and three cups twice a day. is it what it says on the pack or are activity etc taken into acount. I would just like to know as i can get a bag 12.5kg over here for £45 but we usually go through 15kgs a week and would like to know if its worth changing foods (trying to be economic) Sorry if this is long winded

 

[ozzysma]

gees i never thought of that !! thanks peter!!

 

[NessaM]

In my case, I'm feeding Nanook an amount determined by caloric intake, based on his nutritionist's guidelines, and Pooka based on weight gain/loss. I tried cutting Pooka back when we first switched onto this food because I was afraid the higher calories/protein content would lead to weight gain if he was fed the same amount. He lost weight he didn't need to lose on the lower amount, so I added until his weight stabilized. So, in terms of making a decision about how much to feed, in Pooka's case it's totally intuitive, and in Nanook's it's scientific. I personally do take activity into account - Nanook eats 2.5-3 cups on days when his workload is high, and Pooka will eat 6 instead of 5.

The amounts given on the bags are usually pretty useless. Every dog's calorie needs and metabolism is different...the suggested feeding amounts are just that, suggestions - a leaping off point. I find it more useful to look at the kcal per cup amounts and use that. The amount you need to feed will vary from variety of food to variety of food based upon how many calories each cup of the food contains.

**edited to add: Lots of the pet food companies do not provide kCal information on their bags - but if you call their customer service they can usually provide you with that.**