more disquieting thoughts

ina/puusty

New member
Men who enter the/a priesthood..are ..from our wide spread family groups, from 'every state'..and as we see those unhappy headlines..are we forgetting that there are molesters..with every larger community? It is a truth..that we find men, and women, of other churches, and sects, and retreat groups..who do damages..to children..and to adults. We cannot 'tar'..just one group. Looking outward..we have damaged adults..around this world..and we must all, in your town, and mine, in your family groups, and businesses, and mine..be vigilent. We can..help..by noticing..unhealthy people..it is part of how a solid family works. Let us not..'lean upon'..only..the headline news. We all have watching to do..and pointing fingers..is NOT as healthy as dialing a phone..to report a concern. Pleeaseeee..do not poke sticks in hornets nests..or we will be dropped off the board. It has happened before..and will...happen again. ina n HB
 

Lisa@Caeles Hills

New member
Again, the Church is unfortunetly also besiged by evil people, alot of whom have admitted being abused as a child or having a sexual disorder such as pedophilism or homosexuality....but the teachings remain the same. The horror of what happened in the clergy has been terrible, but was less than 2 percent of the total priests in the world. 10 % of teachers are convicted of sexual abuse in this country alone! not to mention according to police reports the majority of abuses and neglect come directly from the child's home. Arent children allowed to be safe at home?
 

angie j

New member
Again, the Church is unfortunetly also besiged by evil people.. The horror of what happened in the clergy has been terrible.. 10 % of teachers are convicted of sexual abuse in this ...abuses and neglect come directly from the child's home. Arent children allowed to be safe at home?
Great, we are on the same page again! I appologize again if I offended any 'one' faith... It was unintentional. The original thought was simply, "People use Power, position and fear to control others in so many aspects of our society!

Angie J
 

NinaA

New member
I have to agree with Murphy. I have no problem with their appearance. But they obviously acted brainwashed - fixed faces, sing-song responses, meek, evasive, etc. But there is obvious evidence of sexual abuse and/or worse of the children. These people did not choose to live this life style, they were raised this way. That doesn't make it okay.
 

Nasus

New member
i have been reading this with interest. I feel I know why the media., and ppl focus on hair and dress.. it is because anything out of the norm is suspect. We as a country (I'm including Canada in this one LOL) We tend to view anything different as something to be leery about.. remember long hair? Mini skirts, and heaven forbid.. Bell Bottoms or flairs. , and now these women show up with strange clothes.. there must be something evil going on... why would anyone dress that way and look like clones... well many ppl do.. we are just used to seeing it and pay no mind... i mean look at our teens.. they all dress alike (but they think they look cool.. pull up your pants and pull down that darned shirt! LOL)
I am not even going to address the sexual abuse.. we don't know anything yet.. we are presuming it is going on.. and pls remember that the phone call that started all this was not a member of this group.. the caller now sits in jail on other reporting false stories.
 

angie j

New member
I agree... I've heard very little media about the "sexual abuse"...

Now the issue with using "Religious Freedom" (and this time I DO use the term loosely.. purposefuly) as a means for creating arranged marriages for young girls is a different matter all together...

In that case it is the Justice System that is at fault... If the Political authorities don't want to make a Legal Case and draw a 'Liine' as to where Religious Freedom isn't allowed to overlap into Criminal Restrictions there is no help for these gals. I personaly can't lay "blame" with the Sect (although I don't condone it either) if the 'Justice System' will sit back and allow it.`

Nasus... I told my kids if they wore their pants like that I'd burn them.... while they were still wearing them...lol. They probably did it behind my back, but they would never in my sight!!

Angie J
 

ina/puusty

New member
I am thinking about the 'style of clothing' issues..through time..and..if each man ..related to anyone you know..showed up for the day..wearing a sarong..what would most likely happen/be said? On islands and in other countries..sarongs are proper attire. How and what..is going through the minds..of people who chose any style of dress? I still..favor black slacks, black print tops in summer, or drifty-hippy tissue batiqs..to wear. Usually with a left wrist in color-coded bangles from india. Never ear rings..as I want people focused upon my face..to listen to what I am saying/suggesting/palavering about. Or yipping/yapping.about. It is an 'in your face'..choice..to make people either 'be ready'..to think..or safely find a way around/away from me..so as to not harm them. I feel I should..out of consideration..warn..'delicate tpes'..away..so that I do them no damage..in passing. One of the reasons I post most often..down here in.."Open'.. ;) ina n HB (Sigh..HB..ya-want I duct tape that tri-metal bangle on fer ya?? )
 

Largo

Active member
Mankind through the ages and right down to our own time now have done all manner of evil things to their fellow man in the name of God. From the subtlest of evil to the most blatant. And God was not in any of it. Many still now in our time profess to follow God's ways yet, they don't even keep His weekly Sabbath. A commandment. But instead keep Baal's sabbath. Which is sunday. And out of their mouths' comes this is the way of God or Jesus Christ. And still many who do keep His weekly Sabbath have perveted it or don't follow any of His other commandments. Like the keeping of His Holy Days. And God is not in that either. That mess with those group of people and in this world, God is not in it. He is going to humble mankind though.
 
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Lisa@Caeles Hills

New member
This is interesting comment above....wondering what church you attend and of what authority you call Sunday "Baal's Sabbath"? It's true that the Jewish Sabbath began at Sundown on Friday night, however, Jesus' apostles changed the day to Sunday because of that being the actual day He rose from the dead. This has always been accepted by Christians as to the Authority Jesus gave his Apostles and the Church He established. I'm sure He knew we would still be here 2000 years later and still need an "Authority" so people did not misinterperet the scriptures....after all He is God.

Found this....is interesting and true, I checked it out:

HOW OLD IS YOUR CHURCH
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.
If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.
If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.
If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.
If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.
If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.
If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.
If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.
If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.
If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.
If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.
If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as 'Church of the Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel." "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.
If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
 
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ina/puusty

New member
Those time-lines..are interesting..but then there are all those, I am like/similar to....who follow, not a religion..but spirituality..and that goes back to honoring (not worshiping..may I add..as that indicates a ..'religion'..as in formalized books/creeds..and all such format)..the earth and its powers. We..who consider ourselves Tribal..came from thousands of years..of caves, and lodges, tents..and tree shelters..from 1,000 years ago..back through time..to 20,000...50,000 years. The thunder..stole our feeling of safety, the rivers..drowned us..and yet..people here..people there..made it to a safe place. They who survivied..people the earth now..in many skin colors, and..a great many faiths and viewpoints. We are ALL..of value.The sun, moon, winds and water. Caring about the Elders..and making attempts to move among many types of people, many kinds of rich, varied, cultural heritages..in a calming, non-wounding way. We celebrate the love of our family groups..as they seek Goodness..and Rightness..each in..THEIR own chosen path. Here..on this NN board..we must seek the strength to..allow..others..their path. We must seek..to never place ones personal commitment..above, or as an ...'Only'..choice. All viewpoints are welcome..none must..on a board this diverse..be trying to argue that..only-they..are the holder..of right information. We are all family here..and it would be gentle..to allow that to remain..a common bond..and caring. Viewpoint yes..but always..in an 'allowing way'..so that none others feel..at hazard..as they to..walk this path..with us. Peace, ina n HB
 

Largo

Active member
Lisa that is an interesting list. I belong to known of those.

Now as to what you wrote about the Sabbath being changed to Sunday by Jesus's Apostles, you a very much incorrect. Search the scriptures and history. Jesus himself observed God's Sabbath as well as his disciples and the Apostle Paul. They also instructed the Church to do the same after Jesus was crucified. Many often say the same thing about the Sabbath being changed. And indeed it was, by man, not God. Keeping God's Sabbath as he commanded as well as His Holy Days has so many lessons for us and understanding of scripture. Not to mention, He commanded that we do so. One of those lessons is with the keeping of the Passover. It reminds us of what God did for His people in bringing them out of the bondage of Egypt and what He did again with the Sacrifice of His Son to bring us out of the bondage of spiritual Egypt, sin. All things missed, with the adherence to sunday as the sabbath and holidays as celebrations.

Think about this. The very first commandment of the ten commandments says for us to have no other gods before Him. Exodus 20. Sunday being set aside as a day to worship a god took place long before the Council of Nicea instituted the change (among others) for Christians. That was a day for the worship of Baal. A sun God. Sunday was not then and is not now, nor ever has been God's Sabbath. Read Daniel 7:25

Also, read Matthew 12: 39-40. The disciples wanted a sign from Jesus. He said that the wicked wanted a miraculous sign and that He would give none, except the sign of the prophet Jonah. "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Now read in Genesis 1. God says and the evening and the morning were the first day. Same for the second day etc. If Christ was buried on friday and rose on sunday he could not have kept his word that he would be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. Sundown friday or even friday afternoon to sunday morning is not three days. If you count a day as God does.

The day Jesus died and was buried was Passover Day. Read also in Mark 15:6,42. He died and was buried just before sundown on the Passover day. He was our Passover. Scripture fullfilled. Matthew 27:63 shows how the chief priests of the Pharisees wanted a guard placed at His tomb for fear that the disciples would take His body to try to prove that he had risen like he said he would. So Pilate had a guard placed at his tomb and a seal on the stone that closed the opening to the tomb. Verse 62, tells you that these chief priests went to Pilate making this request that day after preparation day, the day Jesus was crucified. If the Passover does not fall on the Sabbath, work can be done on that day. Being called preparation day is due to the fact of the prepartions being made for the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which follows the very next day after Passover. A Day in which they would not have been able to perform a burial. If you read on to Matthew 28:1, you will see that it says that Mary Magdalene went to visit Jesus' tomb after the Sabbath on the dawn of the first day of the week. Sunday. And she found Jesus already risen. Because he rose just before sundown on the Sabbath day. Lying dead three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Because he was not crucified on a friday, but rather on a wednesday and buried just before sundown that day. He could not have been buried on a thursday because the first day of the feast of unleaveded bread is a Sabbath and no work can be done. And if he was buried on a thursday and you count a day as God does, sunday morning is still incorrect for Him to have risen because again, He said that He would lie dead for three days and three nights.

Jesus also said, I have come not to change God's law but to fullfill. Matthew 5:17-20 & Revelation 21:1-4, I don't think that has happened yet. As for the Catholic church being founded by Jesus, are you sure about that? They keep not God's commanded Sabbath, a day He says would be a sign between Him and His people forever. They also do not keep His commanded Holy Days. Now if you truly believe that God's Sabbath was changed by the authority of Jesus, then all of this will be hog wash to you.

You should know that I am not trying to convince you of anything. I have not the authority to do so.

Search the scriptures, look through history. Pray and ask God for understanding and for truth.
 

ina/puusty

New member
I appreciate the .move towards PMs..as this may be needing to become ..as the saying goes..'A person to person'..dialogue via PMs. ? Huh..mebbe..jus a thought. Thanks much, ina n HB..(unless HB decides to..sit this one out.... :)
 

drulzelot

New member
It is similar to the food discussion. Some choose raw, some kibble, some home cooked, etc. Each is an individual, each has unique needs, desires, wishes, etc. The other religions were founded to suit those individual ideas and needs. I do not eat meat (but I do eat fish), it makes me feel ill. I mostly eat raw veggies, very little bread (maybe a slice a week or less). I am fit, energetic, healthy (and have a "few extras" for padding). I have a severe dairy allergy, so I do not consume anything pre-made, butter, milk, yogurt, etc. This suits me but others would die of starvation on it. I would never dream of telling others this is how they should eat. My Hubber is a meat man. Likes his meat, potatoes, fruits and veggies. He eats everything, but must have his protein 3X day. I would feel horribly ill on that. He is tall, slim, energetic and healthy. What works for one may not work for another, no matter which came first, or comes last. We each seek the same things: Our place in the Universe, what we are doing here, a relationship with something greater than ourselves, a sense of security, and value. We seek comfort when a loved one passes. But one person's idea of comfort, security, relationship, etc., may not be another's. Needless to say, the description of heaven in our Great Book says we will get to sit at a table with our Creator and Jesus and feast. Well, what if the person sitting next to me eats like a pig? Feasting doesn't sound like something I want to do, either. I think I'd prefer to lay in the grass in the sunshine and find animal shapes in the clouds. Some prefer to have 72 virgins, others see that as 72 gals with PMS.
My particular point is that is very hot in Texas while these women must have been sweltering in these rediculous outfits--and the outfits are rediculous, one could easily accomplish the same level of modesty in a modern fashion--all because they were told that was the way to heaven and they believed it (or simply obeyed for reasons we do not know). Gee, doesn't sound like I have the same Creator they do, because mine is loving and compassionate; I feel that way because I look around and am surrounded by beauty, love, peace; by sunrises, Spring flowers, Autumn leaves, kids, newfs, friends, etc. Only Love can create all those things, and are we not told that God is Love?
 

Lisa@Caeles Hills

New member
I don't think a religious debate is over pm's is necessary...I am simply defending the Catholic faith as it seems to be used as a bad "example" and being a professed religious and loving the Church so much I cannot look away and not defend her. As far as your scripture readings and understandings, without having an authority to help us understand what it is God wants from us, you can see how all these different faiths have different interpretations, which was my point in the beginning about odd cults. I do respect all religions as long as they strive for "good" and not evil, and do enjoy talking with people of other faiths and getting their perspectives, but when it comes to the Christian faith, I believe there should be unity as Jesus prayed for, so that His word is not distorted. As far as the Catholic faith and where it came from historically, that is elementary and is easily found out in any dictionary, encylopedia, or historical literature. I personally own a book that is still printed called the "History of the Church" written in the year 320AD by a Catholic Bishop Eusebius. We all must strive to live in a manner loving to our earth and it's creatures, and most of us realize that we are also spiritual beings and turn to the only God who has ever revealed himself in our history to help understand what we will be after we die. I think there will always be a hunger for spiritual knowledge and therefore we will never be without religions as John Lennon called for in his song "Imagine". And with that in mind, I truly think disscussions like this are a good thing.:)
 

Lisa@Caeles Hills

New member
Drulzelot...I must have been typing as you were. I agree that the clothing wore by those women and the hairstyles are not very attractive and from reading an article about it, saw that they all wear the same so that there is no jealously between them. Sounds to me like a rule made by a man and may be a way of keeping the women in their place. I am professed to attend mass on daily basis if possible and so need to wear appropriate clothing there and to work afterwards. I usually wear long dresses (its cold here 7 months of the year and they are also cooler than wearing nylons in the summer) but I have found there are many flattering long dress styles that are modest and either simple or fancy for whatever occasion. I also need to wear clothing that can be washed as on my way to work I have to stop and feed my horses and of course have a slobbery dog!:lol: To be forced to wear an unflattering dress and subdue the most basic feelings of womanhood by sharing a husband and having virtually no say in a daughter being forced to marry an older man is I'm sure we all agree NOT what God's plan was for woman who was to be a helper to man and to be cherished.
 

Mrs Beblo

New member
Oh Lisa!
I, (not only) have apologized to my neighbors for the way that I "dress" outside of work (slobber *does* take its toll on fashion!) Poor Mrs Stephanie said that "She Understood" as my dryer spews out fabric softener scent every 12 hours! She knows that I DO wash!, and sometimes I have an 'odor' anyway! ~ Newf = Wet Dog, no matter the weather!
Stef has only asked that I don't 'blow him off' while she's grilling dinner! I happily oblige!
I have asked our "Family Priest" to reply on the subject. He's seen it all with US! I appreciate his input and respect his opinion. I will ponder HIS reflections (as a Catholic!) and inform you of his insights.
~ By the way, Fr Jim could live the rest of his days WITHOUT ever seeing Buford again, (he's afraid of a lil slobber!) but I Love Him just the same! xoxo Mrs B
 

Largo

Active member
Lisa yes, there is much religious confusion in this world. Much deception and false teaching also. And many people who just plain don't understand. Jesus said in John 6:65, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him." With understanding one is able to see that the scriptures need no interpretation as they interpret themselves. I think it is important to pray for understanding.

Jesus is the authority that will indeed clear it all up. As He and His disciples whom He instructed, preached the Gospel of the coming Kingdom of God.
 

drulzelot

New member
I figured it out! I think I have finally put my finger on why the clothing, hairstyles, plain expressionless faces give me the willies. You won't think I'm shallow, afterall <VBG>.
I'm going to take you on a journey, so pretend you are this person so you can get inside my mind for a glimpse of how I think (and view things). Don't worry, it will be interesting!
You are five or six years old. Go back to your world at that time, remeber what it was like? What was important to you? What toys did you like, Barbies? Maybe you got your first wristwatch for your birthday, or a new coat. Perhaps you have just started kindergarten. Put yourself in that frame of mind.
You are six. You are in a parking lot of a place called Bellevue. It is a brick building at the end of a tree lined, winding road. It may be several buildings, but the one you are looking at is a huge, brick building with ivy growing up it. You like the way it looks, the contrast between the hard, red brick and the soft, flowing green ivy. Almost makes it look like an old castle. You'd rather stay here and take in more of the scene, but that is not what you are here for. Your Daddy takes your hand and tells you to stop dawdling, we need to get going. We are going inside the building to visit Mumma, who is very sick. Bellevue is the mental institution, and your mother has schizophrenia. You really do not want to go visit her, you'd rather stay outside, but you go in with your dad.
Inside, you are struck by the severity of the place. It is not beautiful and mysterious like the outside, instead the lights are bright and very harsh, everything is painted white, which reflects the harshness of the lights. People are moaning, screaming, and making strange noises. A lot of people are moving around, lots of activity, lots of yelling. But the one thing which sticks in your mind more than all those other qualities is the smell. The strong, acrid smell has more impact and leaves more impression than the sights and sounds.
It is the smell of antiseptic.
Now to most who would walk into this place, the smell would tell them, "This place is clean, it has been sterilized with antiseptic because I can smell it." To my mind, however, the presence of such a strong odor would make me think, "They must have used this strong anitseptic to get rid of (or cover up) something septic." Mask the smell of urine or feces, which could still slightly be smelled under the horrid smell of the cleaner.
Those women in their clothes? They are the antiseptic. The attire is, I mean. It is the blatent outward appearance which states, "We are clean. You can see how clean (pure) we are." The antiseptic-ness of the outward appearances was there to cover up something septic, something nasty, toxic. That's why it bothers me. Burquas do not bother me, the Amish and the Mennonites' attire does not bother me, most other clothing does not bother me. So I think their clothing, hairstyles, severe faces, etc. remind me of something meant to lead others into thinking something is "clean", when it is simply used to mask something else.
Gee, I hope this makes sense. What do the men wear, by the way? Are they dressed in knickers or do they wear modern suits and clothing?
 

Nasus

New member
Yikes.. i think u hit the nail on the head (for you)
As to the men.. they wear 21 century clothes. Look like anyone else.. is that not interesting ?
What also bugs me is these women and children are for the most part on welfare.. Of course they would be, kids having kids and no legal marriage.. i would love to see how they fill out the forms.. This group wants nothing to do with "outsiders" but they will take "outsiders" money.
 
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