Male dominance / TO OWNERS OF Males

[lenovo]

My question is for the owners of male newfs.
What are the sort of behaviours one sees in male newfs time line for dominance, for example three months twelve months eighteen months etc, feeling their oats, male dad vs female human mum, etc.

I will be getting a male in the near future and would love any input, of the regular time line frame within most males, and also the ones that have a little more umph male attitude that you had to work on being less.

 

[M & M's Mom Linda]

We have 2 intact young males. Max is 2 and very laid back. Marcus is 10 months. Other than Max wanting to mark we have seen no dominance issues at all. Marcus hasn't even lifted his leg yet to pee Neither do any "humping" with each other or other dogs. Never any dominance with Barry and I...Marcus is still testing us with puppy antics but never dominance or aggression.

 

[Lisa@Caeles Hills]

Have a 2 1/2 year old male intact. I train with him regularly for conformation after doing a 2 month obedience class at 4-6 months. He was a big baby and kind of a scardy cat until 10 months or so when he started to get more confidence and started to test me. Mostly by pulling at the leash or not doing what I asked without a visable reward like a treat. Never any aggresion or growling. I've always been able to take food away even raw meat and so has my smaller Golden Retriever from him with no problems. He doesnt try to run off on me when loose either. My experience with him has been very good and am planning to get another intact male.

 

[jane]

I feel it depends on the dog's individual personality. I've had four male's. Thumper was very laid back and there was no dominance issue's. Brumis was dominant, but in a protective way. Never viscous. Neither did any mounting. Roger is my very dominant male. He was mounting everyone and everything, except me, by the age of 7 months. When w/a pack of dog's, he is looked at as the dominant one. He also is not viscous. Even though he is fixed, he will still mount male dog's he feels are trying to be dominant. Merlin is my momma's boy. Not a dominant bone in his body. He is Roger's shadow......Every newf, including Sassy my bichon who thinks she's a newf, know's I'm the alpha. Merlin is still a puppy and of course will still try and act up at time's

 

[Ivoryudx]

I agree with Jane, it depends on the individual males personality. It will also help if you really know your breeder and the lines of dogs your puppy is coming from. As certain traits like 'soft males', 'soft females' or the opposites can be seen generation after generation if you and the breeder know the lines. I have a boy who was lifting his leg at 12 WEEKS of age, and he didn't have any other males around to imitate. Not even any intact girls at the time either, and he has been a challenge from day one. Of course now that he is older (almost 7) he has settle A LOT, but there are still days when I run him through the paces to remind him of who is in charge. He's a big teddy bear because of the work I put into him at home. He was a constant work in progress for the first 4 years of his life. Of course I wouldn't trade him for the world right now, but there have been days......

So just a word of warning that they all are not created equal. Just because they are a Newfoundland does not mean they are always going to be the gentle giant without some work.

 

[M & M's Mom Linda]

Good point to bring up Susan...are guys are worked almost everyday...even if it is something simple like carrying in the newspaper or a log. I think that makes a big difference
I know Marcus's line matures very slowly...though the last 2 weeks Max has been sniffing at his "boy parts" with interest.

 

[NessaM]

I've got two boys, one intact 10 month old and one neutered nearly-two-year old. So far all we've had is a lot of full-contact wrestling between the two of them. It is almost always just play. Any time I feel their play gets too crazy or either one of them appears to be posturing they both get a time out. Nanook was a challenge as a puppy - always testing his boundaries - but has mellowed amazingly, and Pooka (the intact puppy) is a lunatic but has never challenged either human.

I don't think Pook has really started to show mature sexual characteristics though. Both are working towards their CD, (Nanook is in Show-Ready Novice class, Pooka is in Attention III), so they get a lot of obedience training on a daily basis.

 

[Sailorgirl]

I think just having a solid obedience foundation and a trainer on standby to help when you run into an issue goes a LONG way to dealing with any potential dominance issues. My boy is the sweetest, softest boy around. Now. Shortly before we had him neutered he was definitely a handful. That's why I don't think I'd ever want to, or be physically capable of managing an intact male. When you are dealing with a dog that is THAT big and strong, things can go badly, quickly. Both of mine were in obedience classes starting at 13 weeks old and continue to take them on occasion and both have earned a working title, as well as their TDIs, but I still feel pretty strongly that I personally would not feel comfortable dealing with an intact male.

 

[IndysDad]

Being the man in the house Indy (2.5 year old male) and I "fought" for dominance for 1.5 to 2 years. I never let up on him, and I always "won" the battle. So many times I had to roll him to his back, grab his throat, not hard or mean but like his mother or a sibling would do when play fighting. Then he knew who the boss was and would back down. Today it has paid off. He has always been really really good but there were times he would challange my authority. He doesnt do it any more and behaves extremely well. He did have a year or so of obedience so that helped too.

 

[ardeagold]

Cole is 7 months old now and in just the past two days, he's testing, testing, testing.....and it IS testing my patience. :lol:

He hasn't won a battle with me yet either, but he's quickly becoming big...and strong. So we're practicing our obedience a few times a day, and starting TWO classes in January.

 

[Charlie'sMom]

Charlie came to me dominant from the breeder, when he was little we did dominance exercises CONSTANTLY ... every time he growled or showed any sign of aggression or dominance over me I would pin him down until he stopped struggling ... he did some testing with me a few weeks ago ... so I instated the NILIF, and he has not been testing to nearly the same extent ... but he is still dominant over the cat, and will mount other dogs if they let him ... so for the time being we are using a 50 ft drop lead when we go off leash so I can re-direct him if he tries to mount other dogs ...

 

[rcantor]

Princess (2), Tank (2) and Isaac (4) are intact. Tank went through a pushy phase where he would swing his hips in to me or Isaac when passing. I would check him right back. He tried that 2 or 3 times, quit for a few weeks and do it again. After a few months he stopped. Now he's super affectionate with Isaac and I. Princess is humping Isaac a lot. Isaac got punished severely for fighting with another (neutered male) Newf and now he wont go to that angry place. He and Princess wrestle, but if Tank sees them he flattens Isaac and Isaac wont get up to challenge him. Tank lets Princess win all their matches, so Princess likes to wrestle Isaac more. Sometimes I distract Tank so they can play.

Dominence isn't always what it seems. Tank started jumping up on people a few months ago. He hasn't done that for over a year. I corrected him and he stopped doing it on others but still did it on me. I got the impression it was more affection than dominence but wasn't sure until a few days ago. I let them out in the yard of a kennel they were staying at and as I walked across an icy patch Tank lept up and put his arms around my neck. I went hurtling backwards, backpedaling furiously to stay upright (I hate falling even more than hitting the ground). I slammed into the door and a split second of relief gave way as soon as the door did. I knew the kennel fencing was a few feet behind and I thought I'd bounce off of that and be fine if I could just stay up so I backpedaled some more. I did hit the fence but didn't bounce. I did manage to get mt feet under me and came back out. I could see that Tank felt bad. Indeed the rest of the day he'd run at me as if to jump then just stood there and hung his head. Such a sweet boy! But the next day he went back to jumping, just not as exuberantly. So now I'm pretty convinced it's purely affectionate. I also am rethinking his vocalizations. They sounded angry or whining and complaining but I'm starting to think he means them as happy to see me. I wish I understood him better!

Isaac is more passive-agressive. He'll run away or mess the house. But that's pretty rare these days.

They all pull at the leash. I use a prong collar, which helps, some people here hate them.

There was a great post on how to deal with a nipping puppy by Ivoryudx. I'm not sure I can link to it because it's on the old board so I'm copying it:

A 14 week old puppy, displaying these behaviors needs his freedoms taken away. He needs to earn rewards, and needs a leash on at all times, so you can get a hold of him to stop his behavior. Time to do the 'nothing in life is free' technique. He must 'sit', or 'down' or 'shake hands' before he gets any type of petting, or treat.

You mentioned your Vet showing you a dominant down but your missing a couple of things to go with it. First, if your going to use it, you need to be doing it randomly throughout the day, not just when he is being obnoxious. By calmly doing it (not harshly), randomly throughout the day, when he is not all pumped up, you begin to add positive times when it is not a struggle and he can learn to 'release' his behavior quicker. Second, since you are releasing him when you feel him relax, and he is getting back up and doing it again, you need to extend it. Once you feel him relax, loosen your hands on him, but hold steady. If he starts to get up, tighten your hands, and hold him there. Wait for him to relax again, and losen your hands again. Do this until you can remove your hands and he will lay there. Watch him, wait for him to give a huge sigh while laying there. It may take a while, but don't say anything to him, just calmly put him back down, if he tries to get up. Once he gives you a big sigh(deep breath), you can tell him 'okay' and let him up. (Be sure and never let him up, until YOU release him) Hopefully at that point he will get up and shake. That is what your looking for, a clear signal that he has released that balled up energy that he was holding, and can be more subdued in his play. Your also controling when it is over, only after you know he has settled.

http://www.newf.net/Forums/showthread.php?t=49114&highlight=sigh+shake+down+let

It may be the most quoted post on Newf net.

 

[Baloo]

Baloo is almost 6 months and very mouthy. He also likes to bark and sometimes jump. I am constantly on him about it and I'm hoping it is a phase he will grow out of. Sometimes he is the sweetest baby in the world....but when he is feeling playful is when he gets hyper. He is alot better with the kids since obedience training .... treats them less like litter mates. They are also alot firmer with him. He certainly knows I'm the boss...I just think he likes to test it now and again. My only real concern at this point is his mouthiness.....not just with family but with visiters also.

 

[Ohana Mom]

Lots of great advice here. One thing to remember, dominance comes in various forms. Some folks think it's aggression, but truly - it can be anything from jumping on you, to body positioning with you to even quietly standing next to you - but placing their foot on top of yours ... all are various signs of exerting dominance.
Iz certainly tested us. He would jump on us and try to climb on other dogs. Never in a sexual way - has never "humped" in the house - but merely to show where he "thought" he was in the pecking order.
But like Susan said, working with him DAILY made all the difference in the world. These are WORKING dogs, they need to work. And if you have one with a true working spirit, and DON'T work him - then you have issues.
Once we started working with Iz everyday, and working with our trainer, it all paid off.
He is 2 now - and is very active in conformation, draft. water etc .. in short he is around a lot of people and dogs all of the time.
But we had a proud moment this week. Friends came over - and David (my husband) told Iz to sit next to him while I brought folks into the house. Iz never moved and quietly waited for them to greet him - with all of the manners of Cary Grant!

 

[Largo]

I personally prefer the fellas. I have 2 males here. One intact and 3 yrs old. The other neuterd (now a normal intact male) and 4 yrs old. They get along very well. Occasionally I have to dilute the testosterone.

Know your breeder and what they tend to produce in males. And know the individual pup you choose. They should be temperment tested to give you a better idea of their personality. The parents should also have good temperaments. Make sure your breeder fully understands what you are looking for and not looking for in a male and what you can honestly handle. Obedience train, be consistant and provide an active life. There is professional help available should you ever need it.

All in all, male or female, if the dog is bred well, and has a good temperament, training and consistancy and a good life, they will be a good dog. Being male doesn't automatically equal problems. You can get major tude with either sex neuterd/spayed or not.

Bartlett my intact male again at three yrs old now, is no problem. I cannot predict the future, but he has shown no signs of dominance or wanting to be the ruler of the pack. He has been a little testy from time to time (hard head) but nothing out of the norm for a maturing intact male.

 

[lenovo]

Thank you all for your responses. Any more gladly welcome.

 

[2Paws]

Dominance issues aren't necessarily just an intact male thing. I have three newfoundlands, two are fixed and one is intact. Glory (almost 6) and Benson (4 1/2) are fixed and Henry (16 months) is intact. For the most part everyone gets along very well but there are times when trouble can brew between the boys. And it's not necessarily the intact male who starts it. Benson will at times challenge Henry. Also Glory is clearly the bossy girl in the household and holds her own very well with the boys. She won't take any crap from them and they know it.

All of them look to me as their leader so if I detect any problems brewing, I nip it in the bud and they respond to me. This leadership role was developed with a high investment of my time by going to many different classes, by making time for lots of play time with them and by making time for lots of training with them.

We are very active with working events, obedience events and with Henry, we are also doing conformation. So the dogs are socialized with other people and with other dogs and I do expect them to have their manners with the two feet variety as well as the four feet variety.

Constant vigilence and being aware of signals that may be sent by the dog are very important to the leader. Again these are learned by going to classes, talking to other owners and really getting to know your dog.

I applaud you for taking the time to ask these kind of questions. Being forewarned is being forearmed.

 

[Largo]

Excellent post Sue.

 

[Brody the Newf]

We had a period of calm and now Brody is back to testing the fence. If he could talk, his favorite sentence would be "Go ahead, make me". In the past few days, he's used his weight and refused to move, has moved real sloooww when I've called him to me, refused to give up objects, tried to eat without permission, peed on a man at the dog park and tried jumping on me. Hopefully within the next day or so, Brody will give up his Alpha dreams and things will get back to normal.