Is this how food allergies present?

[Alex]

Monty's belly is covered in hives. His snout is swollen and itchy. He's going to the vet Friday, but I was hoping more minds might have more ideas. Last time he saw the vet, she said it looked like food allergies and said the next step would be a hypoallergenic diet. I'm totally willing to do that, but I'd like to exhaust other options first since that food is amazingly expensive and Monty's going to eat a whole lot of it.
History:
3.5 years old, half Newf, half GSD. No prior allergic reactions. Eats a prey model raw diet consisting of chicken, turkey, pork, beef, rabbit, occasionally venison, fresh fish (mackerel and milkfish) and canned fish (mackerel and salmon) and the bones and organs of all of the above. He has been on this diet for almost 2 years. He does get run-of-the-mill dog treats contain wheat, corn, soy, etc., but I haven't given him any in about a month. I have used franks (100% beef + necessary preservatives, salt, and paprika) and mozzarella cheese as training treats.
The itchy hives have been waxing and waning for the past five months. I live in North Carolina and moved her last April from Michigan, so this is not his first summer here.
It's possible that he was stung by fire ants. He doesn't currently have the pustules that I've found to be typical of fire ant stings, but I can't rule it out. The first occurrence was a bit different than it is currently. The first time, his face swelled up massively and we rushed him to the vet. His whole body was fairly evenly distributed with hives and pustules. He was rushed to the vet for swelling, given benedryl. About a week later, all the swelling was gone. Three or four times since then, he's broken out with hives (no more pustules) in a significant fashion, but he's had them coming and going consistently. The last incidence seemed to coincide with him stealing a bag of dog treats, inclusive of beef, beef by-products, wheat and corn products. He broke out about 12 hours later. I can't attribute the other occurrences to anything.
Throughout this, he's had hot spots come and go between his paw pads. The would appear, become inflamed, and heal within two days each time. Only his front feet were involved, his back feet are pale and dry.
He was treated with a double dose of Promeris in case it was demodectic mange with no improvement. His itching responded well to prednisone, but it made him pee uncontrollably and in huge volumes. It also responded to a non-steroidal antihistamine (don't know what it was), but it madehim incredibly drowsy. As soon as I finished the meds, his itching returned.

Right now, he's wearing pants and a T-shirt. All of the protected skin has healed within the 3 days he's been wearing it. Hives are gone, redness gone, hot spots gone, and fur already growing back in. If it was a food allergy, wouldn't it not matter if the skin was covered? I would think the hives or at least the itching would persist if it were food related. Areas I've been unable to cover (feet, face, neck) remain itchy, lumpy, and with hotspots.

I've been giving him 1/4 c of apple cider vinegar each evening for 2 weeks now, and I cut all chicken out of his diet three weeks ago. He's also taking the Newf Warrior supplement, I'm confident he's not lacking in anything nutritionally.

Any ideas? Suggestions? Things I need to clarify? I'm desperate for him to feel better. Like I said, I have no problem doing a prescription food if a food allergy seems the most likely, but I want more opinions. I was considering taking him to another vet for a second opinion. RX food would be a very big investment for him.

 

[Sheila B.]

Sure sounds allergy-like, especially with good results from antihistamine which does have a side effect of drowsiness. Wondering if there is something soothing he can be bathed in to help make him more comfortable until you find out the cause. And if it isn't food, might it be environmental? Something in the grass, etc.? Whatever it is, hope you find a treatment for him soon.

 

[Alex]

I bathed him with Earthbath, a soap-free ultra mild shampoo and used the high velocity dryer on him that I heard can help, and it didn't make a difference. I've also used the Sulfadene shampoo on him (don't know if anyone's heard of it?) a tar and sulfur shampoo, and that dried up the pustules, but didn't stop the itching. I'm all ears if anyone has product suggestions.
Doesn't itching always respond to antihistamines whether it's an allergy or... well, what other things can cause itching? I was going to say bug bite, but even if you don't go into anaphylaxis, the itching is still an allergic reaction to the bug's equivalent of spit, right?

 

[BaileyBear]

I have an allergy dog and I'm learning as we go.
I consulted with a canine nutritionist and she told me raw is the best way to go. You are already there so I would not change that. Especially to go to a prescription diet.
Bailey also has environmental allergies and sometimes has rashes. He is always itchy. I've read that if the symptoms respond to steroids they are most likely environmental. I've also heard that allergy symptoms have been especially bad for people and pets this year.

 

[cedarvalleynewfoundlands]

Typically raw is the best way to go with an allergy. Below is a link to a good article on allergies from a while back. One interesting thing the articcle suggests is that bacterial fulliculitis is often misdiagnosed as hives. We had this happen with a puppy we sold a few years ago, and the owners treated for allergies for quite a while before making an appt with a dermatologist, where it was finallt correctly diagnosed as bacterial folliculitis (sp?). I know he was on meds for a long time since the underlying bacteria causing the problems was pseudomona, which is really hard to get rid of.
http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.co...-clinical-s/ArticleLong/Article/detail/336416

 

[Alex]

Thanks Mary, that was a helpful article. I'm pretty confident Monty does have a bacterial skin infection at this point(after two courses of antibiotics last month...), but was it the cause? Is it secondary? If it was the cause, why was it there? Why was he susceptible to it? I googled images of the folliculitis (be BRAVE if you're googling dermatological terms!) and it doesn't look like Monty's lumps and bumps. I googled all of the terms and nothing looked like his lumps actually. They look like a human's mosquito bite. 1-2 cm, red, raised, no head. They're splattered about randomly, not in groupings or lines. They really do look like bug bites, but what the heck is biting him?! I went over him with a fine tooth comb and my dryer and did not find a single creepy crawly of any sort whatsoever. I've never seen any ants on him and I kill anthills as soon as I find them. I haven't gotten a mosquito bite on my property all summer, and I'm a mosquito MAGNET. If he got bit by mosquitos, so would I. I was looking into bed bugs, because I have some itchy lumps as well, but my husband doesn't and I can't find any evidence of them. If we had THAT bad a bed bug infestation that Monty was getting eaten alive, I should see some evidence.
They look like bug bites, but where are the bugs?

 

[graybird]

This is a total "duh" question, but I didn't see anything in your OP or subsequent...do you treat him for fleas? Sure sounds like environmental problems rather than food, and I would be reeeeeallly reluctant to take him off raw. Does he hang out outside on the grass much? Dig? I'm assuming no problems with your other puppers. I'm wondering about the snout and front paws thing...is he active with those (i.e. getting into things, esp. outside) or do you suppose it's worse there because the fur is thinner? :hugs: I'm so sorry for you and Monty.

 

[charlieinnj]

How long have the courses of antibiotics been?

 

[victoria1140]

could be enviromental allergies, can you get any local honey and give him some every day as it helps desensitise the immune system

 

[Jeannie]

I've dealt with an allergy dog for over 11 years. I have two. First thing I would do is choose one protien source and one carb source. When you are feeding so many variables it is hard to know what the cause may be. Slowly add the other to see which one causes a reaction. I'd add one about every 3-4 weeks as sometimes it can be a while before a reaction occurs.

In the food category my Samantha is allergic to lamb, all dairy except eggs, shellfish, all beans, corn, millet and kelp. We won't even start on the enviromental things she is allergic to because I'd be writing a book.

I did allergy testing on both of my dogs. It was expensive and never helped at all. The only thing I liked about it was I found what they were allergic to and I am able to steer away from those things. A few things I have done that seems to help is, I put any grains or kibble in the freezer for a couple of hours to kill any storage mites. I stopped getting vaccines as they lower the ammune system. I also wash bedding (in hot water and hot dryer) twice a week to limit dust mites.

Good luck. Fighing allergies is NOT fun.

 

[Alex]

I can't get any local honey, but I can get raw honey. That was a regular part of his diet for about a month, starting shortly after his itchiness started and I didn't notice a difference. I was giving him 1-2 tablespoons a day. Is that a good amount? Would a month have been long enough to notice a difference?
He does like to lounge in the grass, so today I've started taking him out on leash only so he can't do that. He does not dig or otherwise get into anything. He just lounges and chases his big ball. Both other dogs are fine. I'm confident it's not fleas, he's been on Advantix monthly forever, and for the last 2 months, he's gotten a dose of Promeris every two weeks in case it were mange. I went over him with the high velocity dryer and I didn't find any fleas, ticks, or anything else other than some dandruff. Which also puzzles me because he's getting enormous doses of omega-3's from all the fish he eats.
His antibiotics courses were each 10 days.
I've been toying with the idea of going to a single protein source (I don't feed carbs) but I don't know which one to try, they all seem equally likely. Maybe the whole fish? I've never heard of a fish allergy...??

 

[padkins]

No advice. Just sending good wishes that you are able to find the cause soon for your peace of mind and his! :hugs:

 

[charlieinnj]

His antibiotics courses were each 10 days.

It sound to me like there is an underlying skin infection. A ten day course will not cure a skin infection....Trust me, I've been there several times with Oliver and I'm currently going through it now. They must be on antibiotics for seven days PAST what is considered to be clinical cure of the condition. Otherwise, it will subside and then gradually pick right back up again and come back. I've never had success with clearing Oliver's skin infections unless he is on the antibiotics for 3 weeks, minimal.

 

[BaileyBear]

I still don't think you are dealing with a food allergy. Just wanted to say that indeed some dogs are allergic to fish. Bailey is one of them.

 

[cedarvalleynewfoundlands]

...... First thing I would do is choose one protien source and one carb source. When you are feeding so many variables it is hard to know what the cause may be. Slowly add the other to see which one causes a reaction. I'd add one about every 3-4 weeks as sometimes it can be a while before a reaction occurs.

Alex, this is what I would do too. With all the types of meat, its hard to say what the cause is if it is a food allergy. Even if you feed no carbs, I would still reduce the protein source down to a single meat, and feed that ONLY.....no treats, nothing else at all.
I dont know that it really matters which preotein source you try first, so long as you are only feeding one. One meat source isnt the way prey model is normally fed, but if you're trying to do an elimination diet its the only way to do it. I would try it for at least a month. Within that time frame you should see some improvement if its not the allergen, and you possibly may see a worsening if that particular meat is causing the problem. I would also think that a raw diet from a single protein source is vastly superior to a packaged prescription diet kibble. If you end up having no choice but to try a kibble, I would go with a high quality Limited Ingredient Diet such as California Naturals or one of the Natural Balance LID Diets. I would think either would be cheaper, as well as more nutritous than a Prescription Kibble.

Also, for FWIW, I agree with BaileyBear above.....I would suspect you're not dealing with a food allergy either, although an elimination diet is a relatively easy way to test it out and see.

 

[Alex]

I called my vet today and asked for a referral to a veterinary dermatologist. I will start a single protein diet tomorrow, he's already eaten today. I think I will do the fish, because at least they are whole animals and will have all the organs intact so my diet won't be woefully lacking.
It looks like a flea allergy, but he's been treated for fleas and I can't find any fleas on my dogs or my cats, and my cats aren't on a preventative. Frustrating.

 

[Alicia]

Rocky's allergies have been awful this year. Extremely frustrating at times. We are at month ten for the injections for his environmental allergies and so far no real progress. They say give it a year minimum. He was tested and two of his top allergens are grass and Pine trees! Not sure but I think he would do better if he could live in a bubble. I just wanted to say I feel your pain and know you're not the only one going through this all. Good luck.

 

[cedarvalleynewfoundlands]

....It looks like a flea allergy, but he's been treated for fleas and I can't find any fleas on my dogs or my cats, and my cats aren't on a preventative. Frustrating.

Alex, you may want to consider putting your cats on flea prev too. What you are describing sounds a lot more like flea bite dermatitis than a food allergy. Also, cat fleas are much more likely to cause this reaction in dogs. I seem to remember my vet saying that most fleas on dogs were actually cat fleas, but I'm not sure if my memory of the conversation is accurate or not. I dont know what you use for prev on the dogs, but this year Frontline has not been working good for me at all, not has it been working for many of the clients my vet has. Unfortunately, with flea bite allergy all it takes is a single flea to start the whoe process, and it oftens goes into a secondary infection, usually staph. Hopefully the deramtologist will be able to give you some answers, or at least try something different and see if you can get Monty some relief. Best of luck

 

[charlieinnj]

What you are describing sounds a lot more like flea bite dermatitis than a food allergy.

Unfortunately, with flea bite allergy all it takes is a single flea to start the whoe process, and it oftens goes into a secondary infection, usually staph. Hopefully the deramtologist will be able to give you some answers, or at least try something different and see if you can get Monty some relief. Best of luck

My thoughts exactly...

 

[ardeagold]

Are the cats scratching? You may not see a flea...but should be able to see flea dirt. Comb a cat in the sink...if there's dirt that turns red (blood) when you get it wet...that's flea dirt.

We just went through a bout of cat fleas when a new kitten came into our household.

We use Frontline Plus on all the dogs, but never did on the cats, because they never went out.

Well...the kitten had fleas, so the cats got fleas, and two of the dogs (only two for some reason) picked them up too.

So...we Frontlined all the cats (the kitten was old enough at that stage)...and the two upstairs dogs which are with the cats all the time. Didn't work.

Then we added in Comfortis, for only those animals. De-flead any surface they might have burrowed into. In other words, bombed the upstairs for fleas and washed every piece of fabric on beds, etc.

That did it. All fleas gone. The other dogs never got a flea. Even Cole and Frankie who also sleep upstairs.

IF the cats have fleas...I think you need to treat the cats, the dog and fog/bomb the house. I'd just go with the Comfortis for them. It lasts 30 days and if you kill all the fleas and eggs (you need a bomb that sterilizes the eggs), one or two doses should take care of it for good.

There was just a discussion here on Comfortis, and I had never used it but it worked where Frontline didn't. Plus you can eliminate it if you don't need it anymore. I believe Advantage is a drop on that also treats fleas specifically. Comfortis is a pill and isn't easy to get into some cats.

Oh...and if there are fleas, there will be tapeworms. So in a couple of weeks, watch for them in the stool. If you see them, treat ALL animals with Droncit or Drontal. It's the only wormer that works on tapes.