Detroit's Collapse: the Untold Story
http://www.counterpunch.org/fingleton07032009.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/fingleton07032009.html
Interesting reading
- Thread starter Largo
- Start date
Thats one lone article! No I didnt read it all and I agree with the trade argument, but the bottom line for me is if you build a good product - people will buy it. Detroit has been producing crap cars for years. I until lat year never drove an import. Always bought American but after driving a Nissan for the last 9 months buying what at least GM and Chrysler sells is no longer an option. Ford is a maybe for me.
Let's contrast my last 2 rides. A purchased new 2004 Chrysler Pacifica and the 1997 Nissan Pathfinder I currently drive.
My Pacifica by 65,000 miles had more things wrong with it than any other car I ever owned. The heat would not work below about 10 degrees - at all! No fan, no heat nothing. I was told by the dealer that there was nothing wrong with it! The AC would just decide to stop at will. at about 30k miles there was a loud thud noise that was annoying as hell coming from the back anytime you hit a bump - nothing wrong!.... again, Transmission didnt shift right half the time you drove it, The wipers had a mind of their own, etc etc etc. Not to mention all the little things that I dont even remember without driving the dam thing like trim falling off and stufff like that. I maintained the car very well, oil, wash, etc but the bottom line is it just fell apart in 4 years or less.
Now...... I drive a 1997 Nissan - 12 years old mind you. EVERYTHING works on it. It has 130k miles, no squeeks, no rattles, starts every time and the heat and AC works! The leather seats look darn near new and the only wear on them is he drivers seat and even that is hard to see and this car was a family driven car - not a one driver. It has a touch of rust in one small place but otherwise in and out flawless for a 1997. (One door ding)
So tell me, why would I pay 35k for an American car that most all have a proven history of poor dependability when I can can pay 2- 4000.00 for a used import that runs forever?
And let's not forget how all this got started. The 1972 gas shortage. What did Detroit sell? Gas guzzlers. Imports? Fuel efficient smaller cars. How much market share have they gained? A ton. And what does Detroit sell now? Gas guzzlers. And what did they learn from 1972? Nothing. And I am supposed to feel bad for them?? Not!
Now add into the mix the state of our economy, the over all financial mess we are in, job loss, real estate down by 50% in some areas, families struggling to survive and some failing, bankruptcies at an all time high, and I am to feel sorry for Detroit? Loyal to buying American? At this point, I am done with that.
Where did that get me/us? Nowhere. I have to do what is best for me and mine. Otherwise this unemployed dad wont survive it. Sorry Detroit, you had your chance.
Let's contrast my last 2 rides. A purchased new 2004 Chrysler Pacifica and the 1997 Nissan Pathfinder I currently drive.
My Pacifica by 65,000 miles had more things wrong with it than any other car I ever owned. The heat would not work below about 10 degrees - at all! No fan, no heat nothing. I was told by the dealer that there was nothing wrong with it! The AC would just decide to stop at will. at about 30k miles there was a loud thud noise that was annoying as hell coming from the back anytime you hit a bump - nothing wrong!.... again, Transmission didnt shift right half the time you drove it, The wipers had a mind of their own, etc etc etc. Not to mention all the little things that I dont even remember without driving the dam thing like trim falling off and stufff like that. I maintained the car very well, oil, wash, etc but the bottom line is it just fell apart in 4 years or less.
Now...... I drive a 1997 Nissan - 12 years old mind you. EVERYTHING works on it. It has 130k miles, no squeeks, no rattles, starts every time and the heat and AC works! The leather seats look darn near new and the only wear on them is he drivers seat and even that is hard to see and this car was a family driven car - not a one driver. It has a touch of rust in one small place but otherwise in and out flawless for a 1997. (One door ding)
So tell me, why would I pay 35k for an American car that most all have a proven history of poor dependability when I can can pay 2- 4000.00 for a used import that runs forever?
And let's not forget how all this got started. The 1972 gas shortage. What did Detroit sell? Gas guzzlers. Imports? Fuel efficient smaller cars. How much market share have they gained? A ton. And what does Detroit sell now? Gas guzzlers. And what did they learn from 1972? Nothing. And I am supposed to feel bad for them?? Not!
Now add into the mix the state of our economy, the over all financial mess we are in, job loss, real estate down by 50% in some areas, families struggling to survive and some failing, bankruptcies at an all time high, and I am to feel sorry for Detroit? Loyal to buying American? At this point, I am done with that.
Where did that get me/us? Nowhere. I have to do what is best for me and mine. Otherwise this unemployed dad wont survive it. Sorry Detroit, you had your chance.
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ardeagold
New member
I agree fully..
I worked for auto dealerships for years. The last two were for a Chevy, Caddie dealership. Prior to that.....all import. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Mercedes.
The ONLY thing worthwhile in the domestic line, IMO, are the large trucks/SUV's. We're in a rural area so everybody has a truck. A big truck. Not necessarily a crew/club cab...but one to use for multi-purpose work. There are Ford and Chevy people....loyal because the trucks last. None of the imports have heavy-duty "work" trucks. The domestic cars are pure garbage.
A perfect example of "break down" issues would be the pricing of the extended service contracts (when buying a new car). GM COSTS the dealership from $2-3K for a 6 yr, 100K mile extd service contract. Honda and Toyota cost about $800 for a 7 yr, 100K mile extd svc contract. Why? Because when they warranty something, they take into account what it'll cost over the term to fix it....and then pass it on.
We drive ALL imports. We have a Volvo wagon (GREAT car), Toyota Solara and Toyota 4 Runner. We gave away a '95 Honda Accord wagon with almost 200K miles on it three years ago......and it's still running perfectly.
If I ever get a large SUV, however, I'd get a Chevy Suburban (well maybe....depends on if the Govt is the one doing the backing of the warranty. If so.....no thanks. I can't even imagine that fiasco)
I worked for auto dealerships for years. The last two were for a Chevy, Caddie dealership. Prior to that.....all import. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Mercedes.
The ONLY thing worthwhile in the domestic line, IMO, are the large trucks/SUV's. We're in a rural area so everybody has a truck. A big truck. Not necessarily a crew/club cab...but one to use for multi-purpose work. There are Ford and Chevy people....loyal because the trucks last. None of the imports have heavy-duty "work" trucks. The domestic cars are pure garbage.
A perfect example of "break down" issues would be the pricing of the extended service contracts (when buying a new car). GM COSTS the dealership from $2-3K for a 6 yr, 100K mile extd service contract. Honda and Toyota cost about $800 for a 7 yr, 100K mile extd svc contract. Why? Because when they warranty something, they take into account what it'll cost over the term to fix it....and then pass it on.
We drive ALL imports. We have a Volvo wagon (GREAT car), Toyota Solara and Toyota 4 Runner. We gave away a '95 Honda Accord wagon with almost 200K miles on it three years ago......and it's still running perfectly.
If I ever get a large SUV, however, I'd get a Chevy Suburban (well maybe....depends on if the Govt is the one doing the backing of the warranty. If so.....no thanks. I can't even imagine that fiasco)
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I agree, American trucks have always been the best. I have owned mainly Fords and they do run forever and are very reliable. In fact I thing I have owned a truck (not the same one!) for 20 of the last 25 years. I have had Chevys too and I wont go into the Dodge truck fiasco! Enough said about that.
KodysGrandma
New member
We've had a lot of both in the last 20 years. I drove my 85 Mazda RX7 until 2000 and put 240,000 miles on it. No problems. Lost it because when the clutch went at that point the jerk repairing it drilled through the fire wall into the engine to get the clutch out. Dumb. Anyway moved to a 95 Volvo 940. Has great spunk, turns sharper than our Jeep and has 210,000 miles on it. Love it. The Jeep is falling apart, the Ford truck nickels and dimes you to death. More imports in our future. Unions basically destroyed our automobile industry and it may never come back.
Windancer
New member
knowing how thoural the Japenese are, having done business there..I always felt so safe on JAL.....I KNEW the plane had been so thourally gone over that it was safe.. At least at that time they had such a marvelous work ethic....OH..and even in the late 80's they patted you down at their airports..everyone....
