IBS - Purina Gastroenteric - need help

[ekhalil]

Hi,

Abu has been diagnosed with IBS today

He was prescribed Prednisone and put on Purina prescription Gastroenteric for the next few weeks. Per 100 calories it provides 26.1 % protein, 1.1 calcium and .83 phosphorus. This is the formula used to calculate the amount of caloric intake per his current weigth and age.

For puppies 6 - 26 weeks:

3( 30 * 38 + 70) = 3630

38 is his weigth in kg.

This daily caloric requirement is then divided by the amount of calories in a cup = 399 kcal, giving 9 cups per day

He is 22 weeks and 84 pounds - I know this sounds like he is a pudgy puppy but he actually looks malnurished when wet.
what I am confused about is the crazy amount of food this calculates to. He was on Orijen 6 fish and then Acana Pacifica. This is almost twice as many cups per daily intake !!!
Also, he is teething and am not sure if this calcium level is ok. I am planing to go with acana duck and pear in the future but need advice on that also...(he wasn't doing well on fish Orijen nor acana...)
Does anyone know what is the appropriate caloric intake of a 5 month old pup ?
Anyone dealing with IBS ?

Worried and Confused

 

[NewfieMama]

I do not know the answers but suggest you reach out to your breeder as well? I'm sure others will chime in with btdt experience as well.

 

[victoria1140]

Personally forget the calorific value-feed what is needed to maintain his weight and not make him skinny.

I didn't think they could actually say for definite that a dog has ibs only could have it. Maybe l'm wrong on that one but after living with two ibs dogs for years its a new one.

Firstly get him settled and his stomach back in sync , we used yoghurt,fortiflora powder and slippery elm and chamomile in their foods plus l grew stinging nettles( a weed over here) as its a good antioxidant.

If he didn't do well on the orijen or acana then try different foods as not every dog food suits them and perhaps he needs a different protein as that makes a difference.
Have you had him allergy tested as this can ping up some potential problems-do enviromental as well as food as l've seen a lot of dogs diagnosed with ibs that just had allergies.

Start any changes simply-if you don't like the purina there is always royal canin gastro food or even consider a raw diet as bones,etc can do them so much good.

Keep a diary of food eaten,weather conditions,cleaning done as sometimes a silly thing can set them off-for ages we used lemon juice and vinegar to clean with.

If it is ibs then it can be managed but it takes time to pinpoint issues, if he can't tolerarate acana get sample bags of different foods and try them and remember vets aren't trained in nutritional issues and just because they have purina on their shelves doesn't mean there aren't different options .

Do your research on the net as there is a lot of info out there ,best wishs and hope you find something that works but l definetly reccomend allergy tests -its vital you know if and what he can't tolerate

 

[ardeagold]

The calcium/phosphorus ratios are fine, so is the protein amount.

Do what you need to do to keep him healthy. You feed him amounts based on how he looks...and feels..not by a formula.

We had one who ate 9 cups a day and was as skinny as a rail, and three, at that age, who ate 6 cups a day. Each puppy is different. And you do need to talk to the breeder about the growth rate of her lines.

 

[ElvisTheNewf]

I just went through a calorie/cup conversion with Elvis. It ended up with him needing 5 CANS of food a day, but that was way, way too much for him. We didn't even try that amount.

He's 4.5 years old and had to switch to a wet food for a few weeks after a tooth extraction. We started him off at a can and half twice a day, and that's perfect for him. I did give him two cans once because he seemed really hungry in the morning, but he didn't finish it.

 

[ekhalil]

Thank you all so much for your advice. I really do appreciate it. The past 2 months have been challenging. We have been in and out of the vets office...

He had a full blood and fecal work up. He also had xrays and those were used to diagnose IBS. (upper GI series and large intestine).He was not tested for allergies however. I will ask for allergy tests at the follow up visit.

I am also skeptical about definative diagnsis...especially after the read up I've done today and seeing your responses.

So far he was on antibiotics, then on metronidazole. Now he is on prednisone and Acetylator. The good news is that his poop was actually well formed today. I hope it will stay this way, fingers crossed. I'm just really worried about him being on prednisone. Maybe his belly will settle and he will be off it soon.

As to amount of food he ate 7 cups of purina gastroentric today. He is being fed usually 3 times a day. On cooler days when he is more active he might eat 4 times...I hope he's getting all he needs from this new kibble. I'm not too happy with feeding him purina but have to stick it out for the next two weeks.

What I have noticed is that each time we gave him heartgard plus the runs got worse. Has any of you experienced similar reaction ? I don't even know if there is a proven natural alternative.

I would like to try herbs that were mentioned. How are they to be served and in what amounts ?

I have read that IBS is aggravated by stress. How do I know if my puppy is stressed out ? He seems like a happy puppy to me. We never leave him alone and when he wants to be alone he just goes off to my bedroom and falls asleep. He seeks us out, loves the attention and being around people.

I don't know what's ahead of me. I just want him to feel better already. It's been such a roller coaster.

Once again, thank you all so much !!!

 

[DAWNMERIE]

Yes, with the worm meds for my two, always soft the day after. I went through over 6 months of epic poop issues with Zeke.

I personally hate steroids, I've seen the damage they can do with small mammals (ferrets) I know they are a miracle drug and they have a purpose and we are currently still using them for allergy issues with Myra.

How many different foods did you try? We found with Zeke it was a whole lot of trail and error until we found the correct food that agreed with his belly...but when it worked...it worked. When my guys have had the runs, I've always added a bit of oatmeal and it's always worked for us. To me 9 cups sounds like a lot, Zeke is a big boy and I think maybe as a pup he was on 6/7 cups and if we was still looking for food maybe another 1/2 cup. Personally, I think the Orijen is a bit rich for puppy's and I'm sure others may disagree.

I had a past thread on calories and it's kinda hard to figure out...if you search calories I'm sure you'll find it but I asked because we were dieting and Vin and I kept arguing over how much to feed Zeke.

 

[jane]

Actually Dawn...With these special diet brands they usually require a lot of the food to get the calorie count they need. When Roger originally was diagnosed with IBD they wanted him on the garbage Science Diet. He would have needed about 14 cups a day to get the calories he needed. I ended up going with Natural Balance LID.

I'm curious as to what brought you to the vet in the first place? He will have firmer stools on pred., flagyl etc... What did the bloodwork and x-rays show to rule out other issue's and go with IBS?

 

[DAWNMERIE]

Wow Jane...14 cups??? I can't imagine a dog eating that much food. How many cups did you end up feeding him with Natural Balance?

 

[jane]

I was giving him 7 cups a day of the Natural Balance. IBD is also different from IBS. Roger had consistent weight loss with the IBD. I broke it down to 4 meals a day.

 

[DAWNMERIE]

Personally, I think a lot of vets choose to diagnose IBS when they are not sure and have no other answers. When sometimes it just a matter of finding the proper food for the dog. Zeke could not handle Orijen, but could have just been by the time we tried his belly was to irritated, if I tried today he could possibly handle but I'm happy with his current food.

With the neighbor across the street (older gentleman owns a mixed breed) Ginger was two weeks eating issues with x-rays and the works with over $2k worth a bills with a diagnosis of IBS and then I found out he was feeding those chicken jerky treats from china.

Our first vet (no longer our vet) mentioned IBS with Zeke and she wanted us (after 6 months of back and fourth to the vet and meds and nothing changed) on the special Science diet food and we refused. We ended up the trail and error path and found what foods worked for him.

Now, Myra is the opposite....stomach of iron, all foods we have tried agree with her (other than the allergy thing we've run into) But I tend think some pups just have a sensitive stomach.

And to anyone who reads, please keep in mind these are my thoughts and experiences, I'm no expert on anything.

 

[jane]

Dawn...My Merlin had the same problem when he was a puppy. Every kibble I tried gave him the runs. Then I tried raw....Merlin has never had an issue again. I agree with needing to find the right food. I'm just curious what brought her to the vet in the first place. What were his symptoms?

Oh and in regards to iron stomach....My bichon, Sassy, takes the cake with that!!!LOL

 

[DAWNMERIE]

I'm just curious what brought her to the vet in the first place. What were his symptoms?

me too!

 

[victoria1140]

Beau had the worst stomach anywhere, nothing made him solid despite intensive testing and then we went onto Orijen-made a hell of a difference and we had our first golden poops.
doesnt work for everyone but did for us- ifwe suspect any form of ibs we just treat homeopathically and then find something that works

However most of us dont feed Orijen to a young pup as the calcium/phosphorus levels are higher and also we go onto adult foods to slow growth down..

 

[ekhalil]

Update

Hello All,

I know this is a bit belated but things were absolutely crazy home...
The great thing is... Abu is doing very well on his Purina Gastroentric diet, right now we are mixing it with a bit of Acana Pacifica.
His stools are perfect, although not gold in color since we started mixing Acana in. No more loose mush 5 - 10 times a day. He poops 2 - 3 times now and they are nice and slolid !!!
I do not want to jinx Abu but he has been doing really well...No meds and even able to handle tiny snack portions of cottage cheese and boiled turkey breast or egg.
BTW he is not allergic to anything...
He eats between 6 - 9 cups a day (depending on his appetite) and finally does not look malnurished when wet.
Oh, I have clipped his nails all by myself this morning - he was such a good boy about it. It was my first time doing it and I was a nervous wreck...I