Help With Aggressive Newf!

[LisaStef]

Hi All
Hoping I can get some help here. My Bentley is 2 1/2 yrs 175lbs and a whole lot of dog.

He absolutely hates runners, people on bicycles, scooters, skateboards basically any person moving adult or child whether he is in house, van or on a walk.

He is too strong for me even with a prong collar. My worst nightmare occurred yesterday while on a walk a girl was running he started to bark crazy I couldn't hold him back anymore broke free from me, ran across the street lunged/jumped on her knocked her into a car and on the ground and was growling and also put his mouth around her arm!

We called in a trainer who has given us some things to do but the problem is he is too strong for me and I am usually the only one around this house that takes care of the 2 Newfs when others are working or out.

I'm so upset at this behavior. Thinking of finding someone who is strong enough to handle him. Also my female Newf is starting to follow his behavior

Any suggestions would be welcomed. Thank you

 

[Leonard and his bud Snuffles]

I can imagine how scary that was for you as well as the runner. Snuffles did chase and nip a biker once when off lead and broke his collar when tethered when he reached the end of his tether chasing a bike. Wish I had a good suggestion. Snuffles has that thing for bikes that I have never seem to break. He is a lot better when he knows I have control off him, but I do have a few pounds on Snuffles as well as his age, so I can control him, and do try to get him sitting if I see a bike before him. That is why I am very particular who I allow to walk Snuffles and never do off lead in public.

I wish you luck, and hope you still communicate here to see what happens and if you do find a solution.

 

[Jeannie]

Is the prong collar fitted correctly? It must be snug or it will not work properly. If it is too loose the prongs will fold in instead of squeezing the neck. I'd also try a gentle leader. Not a haltie but a gentle leader. If you control the nose you have better control of the dog.

 

[LisaStef]

The trainer showed me how to properly place the prong collar. He is just so strong and powerful for me. We have several training exercises to do but it takes 3 people and its hard to get everyone together. We're going to work on it and see what happens.

Unfortunately I won't be able to walk him anymore cause I have tendinitis in my elbow and a bad back.

Amy other suggestions are always welcome! Thank you

 

[ElvisTheNewf]

Does the trainer actually come and work with you or just tell you what to do?

I'm not entirely sure what kind of training takes three people. I suppose there could be, but there should also be some things you can do alone. When we were working with Elvis we started at home - literally. I'd put the prong on him and walk him around the inside of my house. I knew that no matter what we were both safe and he learned to sit when I put the collar on, what the prong could feel like, to sit when I stopped, to go where I went, to turn when I turned, etc.

If Elvis ever gets too full of himself we go right back to basics and redo everything he learned in puppy class 5 years ago.

Oh! And even if the prong is placed correctly, you could still be correcting him wrong. We were taught to make a quick upward motion if we needed to correct Elvis. We were supposed to hold the leash a certain way with both hands around the loops, almost like a baseball bat, and give Elvis very little slack. If the dog is way out in front of you then you can't use the prong for a proper correction. From what we were told it's supposed to be a very quick jerk (quick, not hard) straight up and then let release immediately.

 

[ajcooksey]

Maybe exposure in a controlled environment? Willow and I were just used in our training class with a dog aggressive dog. The trainer had me walk willow back and forth several feet away and slowly get closer while they were working with the dog. They told him to look at willow then stay and he got a treat for not reacting. Maybe in a controlled environment have him exposed to the triggers and not let him react to try and fix his bad habits?

 

[DAWNMERIE]

Not walking him and getting out his energy will only worsen this situation. Perhaps maybe a professional dog walker can help some? (sometimes a different energy helps) Sounds like he's taking his position and he's gonna run with it.

As Maggie mentioned, I'd go back to basics. A favorite basic command of mine is stop and has saved me and my bad elbow many-a-times. I had some help with the grandson once I taught him the ropes. I try to desensitize our issues (the dreaded skateboarders and anyone with hoddies or carrying hockey sticks or backpacks and bearded men-lmao) not a complete success but much better, age does help this also. Most important to me is to get the corrections at the proper timing, so that issues don't escalate. When mine were younger and very hard to handle, if I had no stance, I'd make them sit and stay until the issue past us by, I'd also have very special treats ready for good dogs if they listened. What kind of leash do you use? I'm sure others with more experience will chime in or at least I hope they do cause sounds like you could use a little help.

 

[LisaStef]

Trainer showed me proper way to hold leash while using prong collar. And yes it is a quick straight pull up an release. And she said to use "leave it" for everything. I'm working on that in the house cause any runner, person, biker goes past window he's barking like crazy.

I'm going to be practicing with him in back yard with prong collar and leash except that there's no d istraction in yard.

The training that uses 3 people is in front of house have him sit and one person has leash with prong collar on other person is in front of him with treats ready and third person is the runner. As soon as he acknowledges the runner I'm suppose to start talking to him and giving him treats while the other holds him so he can't go after runner.

We tried it this morning using my sons girlfriend as runner my son holding him and as soon as he spotted the motion he went into full force of barking and tried to take off after her. Thank god my son was holding him cause I wouldn't be able to stop him.

Trainer says he gets so full of adrenaline and gets into a frenzy and just focuses in on the runner, etc and does not hear what we are saying.

I am so afraid of someone getting hurt very badly by him.

 

[R Taft]

If you are interested I can give you a really good book to help......I have helped a few people with this issue, there are no guarantees, but if you are willing to put in the time.And time it takes..... I can help. I had similar issues and for the first 6 month I was left in limbo by myself. This is now 5 years ago and i have learned a lot from the experience and have happily helped quite a few other dogs and owners.......In a perfect world you would get a trainer to walk with you. In a usual world you have to get help where you can get it.
I work with getting a dog to focus on me in increasing distracting environments. i also get back to trying to get the dog to realize who is the Leader, but not severely, I use mainly positive reinforcement with negative punishment. And only a very small occasional positive punishment if something has happened. You may also have towork at greater distances and slowly decrease the distance..you have to find the distance where the dog can see a runner and not react so violently. You cannot teach if the dog is so reactive. the dog needs to be aware of the runner, even if it is a very long way away and be able to get his focus on you..As he improves shorten the distance by very slow increments. What he told you to do was too much for the dog. It is also good to get a runner and make them stop start at the distance and also talk to the dog by name. But again the distance needs to be where the dog is calm and slowly bring it in.
All dogs like to chase, it is natural....And especially if it goes away they think they have the power to make it go away. hence the stopping helps. My pack of four used to run along the fence with bike riders...And also bark (we are on a bike riding circuit) So I asked a few bikers to stop, talk to them and call their names.....Now my dogs run to the gate and wag tails, waiting for a few riders who call their names and speak to them. So first think what the dog sees.....try to change that.....that is why a runner who stops and speaks to the dog might help. And that is also why the distraction and feeding that you planned to do will only work at the greater distance initially...i wish I could call in and help you. It is not about strength, it is about getting your dog to focus on you and you becoming more important. And believe me it can take quite some time once this has started to undo it, but it can be done if you set your mind to it. If you pm me with an e-mail I can send you an E- book that will help some.
It also means you are going to have to train and try to get a loose leash, because tight leashes make dogs more aggressive. it is the hardest part of it all. Leash aggression from tight leashes is where a lot of dog problems stem from......the first thing i teach my Rescue's is loose leash walking and focus on me......

 

[LisaStef]

Thanks for all the good advice. Bentley knows "look at me" but unfortunately as soon as the motion or movement catches his eye, he is in frenzy mode.

I think I definitely need to reinforce and go over all the commands again with him while we're walking such as making him look at me, sit, wait, stay. We do loose leash when walking but when something comes up people, dogs, runners etc we have to pull up on the prong collar.

I'm going to try what you said about the runner. I have to use my daughter as a runner. Should I have her stop and then start again? And should I be giving him treats like the trainer said?
Thank you

 

[Angela]

As most people know here Owain is a massive problem. Not aggressive, but very dominant and strong.
What I do when we are out walking and he tries to drag me over to everyone who passes by (yes pinch collar and all) is feed, feed and feed as the person goes past. That way he focuses on me. After the person has passed I throw a treat a foot or so ahead so he is going forward.
You could try that when a runner comes up. Alert him that you have the treat in your hand before the runner gets on a line with you.

 

[R Taft]

Do make her stop and start and yes, she can reward too.the only problem with that is you get he dog who looks at people for treats and might pull you to people for treats ..ok in early training, but i would...The other thing you have to learn, is to be very aware of your environment and get your dogs attention before the dog sees or react to the runner/bike. You end up scanning the horizon the whole time. you see anything and get his attention, focus, focus and more focus......the other good thing is to not feed before a walk, so he is focused on the food and you. But I have sent you some info, more detail that might help Ronnie

 

[dumainedogs]

What Ronnie said. Plus, I like the idea of the switch to a gentle leader. Our behaviorist recommended the same. Only problem was, Obie didn't like it much and neither did I. Instead, I now use a front attach harness. That way, if Obie decides to lunge and bark (which, thankfully is much rarer now) he can only go a few feet before his own weight turns him around. I also use a waist belt attachment to the lead. Saves my arms, wrists, tendons, etc and puts the force at MY CENTER of gravity. I love it when physics tips the scales in my favor Because of a year of work, I don't need this so much any more, but it makes -me- more confident which the dog can also feel.

 

[victoria1140]

I use a skijoring belt around my waist and then all three dogs have gencon headcollars on and are attached to me.l find l can control them easier that way and l have problem dogs who are dog reactive and yet this way l can hold them comfortably

 

[R Taft]

What Ronnie said. Plus, I like the idea of the switch to a gentle leader. Our behaviorist recommended the same. Only problem was, Obie didn't like it much and neither did I. Instead, I now use a front attach harness. That way, if Obie decides to lunge and bark (which, thankfully is much rarer now) he can only go a few feet before his own weight turns him around. I also use a waist belt attachment to the lead. Saves my arms, wrists, tendons, etc and puts the force at MY CENTER of gravity. I love it when physics tips the scales in my favor Because of a year of work, I don't need this so much any more, but it makes -me- more confident which the dog can also feel.

"like" a lot

 

[Ginny]

Sounds like he has a high prey drive. If he'll retrieve, tire the heck out of him in the yard before you go for walks. I'd also try to drain some of that energy with swimming. Hopefully, he'll be crazy to retrieve a thrown bumper in the water which will tire him out. A tired dog tends to be a better behaved dog.

 

[Emmy985837]

If you decide to try a head collar I use the Snoot Loop. I like it because I can adjust the side straps for the jowls.
http://snootloop.com

 

[knittinnewf]

My Maggie darling , now 110 lbs of newf is the most determined newf I have ever had . I agree with all the other suggestions . Our best improvement has come with classes with a positive trainer and the worst smelling treats I have ever used . Once I have maggie's nose I have her attention and then I work any of the commands she knows , sit, down, this way, come around delivering smelly bits and luring her further away from ---------- fill in the blank , for us it's the deer, butterflies, hawks . Yes I know she can't get them but maggie disagrees ! Puppies !
We select times and locations where we are less likely to meet with people . And when we do run into someone she must sit or she gets walked away from them .
She nearly wiped out a poor woman coming out of a diner with a doggie bag in her hand . Maggie the newf stands as tall as a five foot woman. That night I decided it was up to me to be consistent , travel with bacon bits in my pockets and practice a few minutes a few times a day .
read as much as you can about dog behavior too Anything from pat miller or patricia mcconnell

 

[lacey9875]

Any updates on Bentley?? Hope he's doing well!

 

[Shel]

As soon as he acknowledges the runner I'm suppose to start talking to him and giving him treats while the other holds him so he can't go after runner. <snip> as soon as he spotted the motion he went into full force of barking and tried to take off after her. Thank god my son was holding him cause I wouldn't be able to stop him. <snip>Trainer says he gets so full of adrenaline and gets into a frenzy and just focuses in on the runner, etc and does not hear what we are saying.

I would recommend BAT Training. Here is a link to the website: http://functionalrewards.com/

Behavior Adjustment Training, or BAT, rehabilitates dog reactivity by looking at why the dog is reactive and helping him or her meet his needs in other ways. In a nutshell, BAT is a dog-friendly application of ‘functional analysis’ that gives the dogs a chance to learn to control their own comfort level through peaceful means. It’s very empowering to your dog, in a good way.

The video explains the principle behind the training using a fearful/shy dog. The method works with aggressive dogs. The trick is being able to read your dog and reward them by removing the trigger before they react. It does work.

Unfortunately I won't be able to walk him anymore cause I have tendinitis in my elbow and a bad back.

I also use a waist belt attachment to the lead. Saves my arms, wrists, tendons, etc and puts the force at MY CENTER of gravity. .

I use a skijoring belt around my waist ...

I would not recommend a waist belt attachment or skijoring belt for anyone with a bad back. Actually I would not recommend it for anyone that does not already have reasonable control over their dog. Newfs are far too strong and they could seriously injure an inexperienced handler using a leash tethered to their waist.