Calories Question!

[TerriW]

Ok, so I have begun Pete M's Newfie diet (for Ben, not me)

I am giving the big guy 3 slices of toasted brown bread plus 1/3 can of canned mackeral or salmon in the morning, plus 4 slices toasted brown bread and the rest of the can at night, with a few 'natural' Milkbones thrown in for crunch. Some times I add an egg or some chicken as well.

As near as I can tell, this is about 1500-1700 calories a day. Is this enough?

I know weighing him is the best way to be sure, but I can't easily run him to the vet every few days, and he's so furry it's not easy to tell by just looking at him.

He is not very active - at all - as an almost-senior. Two walks a day, then lounging around the rest of the time. Literally. He doesn't play - never has. He acts fine, but a couple nights has seemed hungry later at night which is not usual, so in those cases I toasted more bread and gave him an extra little bit of food and he seemed satisfied.

So I guess I want to make sure no one is out there saying "Oh my doG! You're wayyyy over/under feeding the poor thing!" Any ideas? Pete, I figure you might know if what I'm giving him is enough!

 

[Peter Maniate]

Calorie count will vary from Newf to Newf depending on metabolism and other factors such as amount of time in the cold as well as the quality of the calories. Trial and error is the only way to be sure and when on a new diet, weekly weighing is most important.

On my home made diet, at least 50% of the calories should come from fish. You seem to be a little heavy on the bread/Milk-bone and light on the fish. You can use the calorie count on my Approved Food List to get a guide. However you'll need at least two cans a day of fish.

While expensive, sockeye salmon will provide additional benefits for your old boy. Besides prevention of cancer, there are many other benefits. You can google astaxanthin for some more benefits. Sockeye has about eight times more astaxanathin than other species of salmon. It is also richer in omega-3. I use a generic canned sockeye that I get from a discount store.

 

[R Taft]

I leave the Feeding advise to peter, but I check my newfies withthe rib test. I like them to feel like my knuckles........easy to feel. I up or down amount according to that. i find different times of the year they put on weight easier. Mine are very active in Summer, lots of water training and late night walks. In Winter we tend to be a bit lazy so they gain weight. I reduce the food intake if I feel they have. We hope to change that this winter as we want to do pulling training........

 

[TerriW]

Ok, will lighten up on the bread ... I was using it as filler, rather, to fill him up, as he is used to kibble that expands and fills his belly. I'll add more fish. Would chicken gizzards or livers be something to add once in awhile? And some people swear by adding veggies....that may not be part of the dog's native diet but I *do* see them eating grass in the summer.

I can pretty easily feel Ben's ribs. I wouldn't say they protrude by any means, but can feel the individual bones. I think he's ok (and the vet says he is); still, at almost 200 lbs it couldn't hurt to get a bit leaner. Him, not me. :lol:

 

[Peter Maniate]

Ok, will lighten up on the bread ... I was using it as filler, rather, to fill him up, as he is used to kibble that expands and fills his belly. I'll add more fish. Would chicken gizzards or livers be something to add once in awhile? And some people swear by adding veggies....that may not be part of the dog's native diet but I *do* see them eating grass in the summer.

I can pretty easily feel Ben's ribs. I wouldn't say they protrude by any means, but can feel the individual bones. I think he's ok (and the vet says he is); still, at almost 200 lbs it couldn't hurt to get a bit leaner. Him, not me. :lol:

The chicken gizzards and liver are okay to add but watch for loose stool especially with the liver - some dogs cannot tolerate it gastrically even though they love it.

Veggies are good for filling up a dog that is always hungry. Cooked vegetables can replace some of the bread. Raw veggies, like grass, are not likely to be digested but besides filling up an overly hungry dog can be beneficial for oral health, especially large raw carrots which can be used in lieu of large Milk-Bones or Dentastix.

The charts showing the rib test are "all-breed" and do not specifically apply to Newfoundlands. Newfs, like their first cousins, the polar bear, are meant to carry extra fat as they are the only breed designed to swim in ice cold water. The application of the all-breed test to Newfs may result in under feeding. Now if there are joint issues, this may be a good thing and one has to balance all factors. When underfeeding for orthopedic reasons, the quality of the feed becomes most important to ensure that vital nutrients are still ingested in appropriate amounts. Observing the skin at the first point of deterioration (top of rump) becomes crucial and an early warning sign of possible dietary problems.

 

[ElvisTheNewf]

Elvis has been getting veggies with dinner - green beans mostly, sometimes peas. Every once in awhile we give him an apple just to mix things up. We use raw baby carrots in his puzzle jug at night if he acts feisty/bored. It's helped get him down by almost 20 pounds. Like Ben, Elvis is not that active. We say he has two speeds - lethargic or comatose - so diet is really the only way to get weight off him.

*Peas come out the exact same way they go in (just the other end!), so they're strictly filler. He does seem to break up the green beans.

 

[DAWNMERIE]

The charts showing the rib test are "all-breed" and do not specifically apply to Newfoundlands. Newfs, like their first cousins, the polar bear, are meant to carry extra fat as they are the only breed designed to swim in ice cold water. The application of the all-breed test to Newfs may result in under feeding. Now if there are joint issues, this may be a good thing and one has to balance all factors. When underfeeding for orthopedic reasons, the quality of the feed becomes most important to ensure that vital nutrients are still ingested in appropriate amounts. Observing the skin at the first point of deterioration (top of rump) becomes crucial and an early warning sign of possible dietary problems.

Thank you for stating that Peter, with someone with your experience stating that, it kinda gives me some peace of mind. With my two I've always wanted a little extra weight (Myra not so much) But Zeke has been known to take a dip in the winter and with our local walk (which is around a lake) if any problems I would not want him to hesitate. We are usually the only people out in this type of weather, other than kids looking for trouble...I've always felt like if they are to skinny they don't have to much of a fighting chance between the cold and any type of illness that takes them off food for a little while. I'm not saying over weight but I personally like the little extra flub (5 lbs) if the dog doesn't have othro issues.

Sorry Terri

 

[TerriW]

I appreciate Pete saying that.... I've often suspected that, otherwise a whippet would be considered scary skinny and a Newf (who needs an extra layer of fat for swimming - in his native element) would be overweight.

Ben will NOT eat raw carrots or green beans, even mixed in. Cooked ones, yes, if mashed. Is that as beneficial?

 

[Peter Maniate]

Ben will NOT eat raw carrots or green beans, even mixed in. Cooked ones, yes, if mashed. Is that as beneficial?

Cooked vegetables can usually be digested by a dog unlike most raw veggies and are therefore beneficial. In the wild, canines get their vegetable matter by eating the partially digested stomach and intestinal contents of their prey. In other words, some processing of vegetable matter is normally needed by canines whether domestic or wild. Raw vegetables have their purpose but not for nutrition.

 

[ElvisTheNewf]

Cooked vegetables can usually be digested by a dog unlike most raw veggies and are therefore beneficial. In the wild, canines get their vegetable matter by eating the partially digested stomach and intestinal contents of their prey. In other words, some processing of vegetable matter is normally needed by canines whether domestic or wild. Raw vegetables have their purpose but not for nutrition.

Interesting - thank you! Elvis gets cooked green beans and peas, but the raw carrots are more for entertainment than nutrition.

 

[Milliejb]

very interesting! And very good news, since the princess does not like raw veggies of any kind! HAHA!

 

[Milliejb]

Cooked vegetables can usually be digested by a dog unlike most raw veggies and are therefore beneficial. In the wild, canines get their vegetable matter by eating the partially digested stomach and intestinal contents of their prey. In other words, some processing of vegetable matter is normally needed by canines whether domestic or wild. Raw vegetables have their purpose but not for nutrition.

very interesting! And very good news, since the princess does not like raw veggies of any kind! HAHA!

 

[NewfieMama]

Calorie count will vary from Newf to Newf depending on metabolism and other factors such as amount of time in the cold as well as the quality of the calories. Trial and error is the only way to be sure and when on a new diet, weekly weighing is most important.

On my home made diet, at least 50% of the calories should come from fish. You seem to be a little heavy on the bread/Milk-bone and light on the fish. You can use the calorie count on my Approved Food List to get a guide. However you'll need at least two cans a day of fish.

While expensive, sockeye salmon will provide additional benefits for your old boy. Besides prevention of cancer, there are many other benefits. You can google astaxanthin for some more benefits. Sockeye has about eight times more astaxanathin than other species of salmon. It is also richer in omega-3. I use a generic canned sockeye that I get from a discount store.

I assume these are 15 ounce cans?

 

[Peter Maniate]

I assume these are 15 ounce cans?

A 7.5 ounce (21 g) can of sockeye salmon has about 360 calories; a 14.75 ounce (425 g) of Jack Mackerel has 300 calories; a 14.75 ounce (425 g) can of Pacific Mackerel has 520 calories; and a 4 ounce (106 g) can of sardines has 130 calories. You have to figure out the calories from info on the label. This will require some math as they usually give the data based on a "serving size" and some give it as is and others based on drained weight and sometimes it is not clear what basis they are using.

Normally we only use canned fish that is in water or brine. However there are some in tomato sauce that can be used and the calorie count is usually much higher. Never use fish canned with soya oil or any "hot" sauce. Some of the fish packed in sauce are lacking in the amount of fish and you have to read the label carefully and compare protein and fat levels.

Generally you should avoid canned fish from Asia particularly from China or Thailand. Often they have removed all or most of the oil. You can tell this by comparing the "fat" percentage with similar canned fish from North America. In doing such comparisons you will have to convert the serving size data into full can data as there is no standard for serving sizes.

 

[TerriW]

Cooked vegetables can usually be digested by a dog unlike most raw veggies and are therefore beneficial. In the wild, canines get their vegetable matter by eating the partially digested stomach and intestinal contents of their prey. In other words, some processing of vegetable matter is normally needed by canines whether domestic or wild. Raw vegetables have their purpose but not for nutrition.

Seriously...now I understand what they're doing in the woods when we walk. Wow.

Have backed off one slice of bread per meal and upped the fish. He seems more content and satisfied. I worry he will get tired eating the same thing every day (but I do have a tendency to anthropomorphism!).

 

[victoria1140]

what about adding some cooked porridge or oatmeal to help fill him up

 

[TerriW]

Oatmeal is a thought! If I put gravy on it. What is porridge made of?