Breeding Brown Recessive to a Black/Landseer

[Raventerp1]

Is it permitted to breed a brown recessive to a Black/Landseer recessive, or is it possible that any Landseer would be brown and white?

 

[NewfK9]

My Piper's Dad is a brown and his mom is a Landseer, and so is Piper. I can't tell you what the rest of the litter was, but he was out of Rush Farms in MO. Best I can do for you, where genetics are concerned I have no experience, I have brown eyes, which I am told is dominant, my husband has green/blue eyes, which are supposed to be recessive and our 3 kids have green and blue eyes, not a brown eyed one in the batch!

 

[new_2_newf]

heheh...my brother an I are like that...mom brown eyes, dad blue, we are both blue eyed with brown hair...yet he grows a strawberry blond goatee. go figure??

 

[Raventerp1]

Is there a possibility that the pups would come out brown and white?

 

[NewfDad]

I would imagine only if the brown was recessive for landseer. Gotta have a recessive from each parent unless the recessive is on the X chromosome

 

[bmilam]

I'm no breeder, but I believe so...
(Good info here: http://zh-cn.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=176826376911&topic=19299 )

 

[Pipelineozzy]

My Piper's Dad is a brown and his mom is a Landseer, and so is Piper. I can't tell you what the rest of the litter was, but he was out of Rush Farms in MO. Best I can do for you, where genetics are concerned I have no experience, I have brown eyes, which I am told is dominant, my husband has green/blue eyes, which are supposed to be recessive and our 3 kids have green and blue eyes, not a brown eyed one in the batch!

A person with brown eyes can carry the other colors...Your children have your "recessive" eye color. You just aren't "pure" for brown

 

[Pipelineozzy]

Both have to carry brown to PRODUCE brown...BUT...you also have to consider the next generation...and it will be more complicated if you have combined brown and landseer...as you will have no way of knowing what their recessives are UNLESS you are willing to do coat color testing. Mixing browns with Landseer genetics is generally a slippery slope.

 

[Sun Valley]

Mixing browns with Landseer genetics is generally a slippery slope.

I agree 100% with Cindy...even though I don't have anything against color in the breed, I see NO reason to breed Landseer's with brown or gray...why mix so many color genes? That seems to be what the BYB and mills do, because apparently they have a 'market' for grey and whites and brown and whites.

Lou Ann

 

[ardeagold]

My Piper's Dad is a brown and his mom is a Landseer, and so is Piper. I can't tell you what the rest of the litter was, but he was out of Rush Farms in MO. Best I can do for you, where genetics are concerned I have no experience, I have brown eyes, which I am told is dominant, my husband has green/blue eyes, which are supposed to be recessive and our 3 kids have green and blue eyes, not a brown eyed one in the batch!

Your eye color goes back to your parents and grandparents. Chances are one of your parents had light eyes, and at least one grandparent on each side had light eyes. If the light eyes are "behind" the brown eyed person, and they marry a person with light eyes, it's not uncommon for the kids to have light eyes.

However if you have brown eyes (even with the "light eye" recessive gene) and were to marry someone whose racial makeup includes "pure" brown eyes ... like someone who's Asian ... the children would all have brown eyes. But, their children, (if they had children with a light eyed person,) could well have very light eyes.

Happened in my ex's family (who is Japanese). Asian woman married Caucasian man with blue eyes. Their 1/2 Asian son, who had brown eyes, of course, married a blue eyed, blonde haired Caucasian woman. Their child had bright blue beautiful eyes and blonde ringlets!

And to bring this somewhat back to topic, it's easier to figure out in humans than it is in dogs because dogs have 78 pair of chromosomes, and humans only have 46 pair. But if you KNOW the dog's color "background" (as in parents/grandparents/etc) and you're trying to stay within the standard (which all good breeders do), then you wouldn't breed a Landseer with a Brown. Somewhere down the line there will be Brown and White dogs, which isn't what a Newf is supposed to be.

 

[Raventerp1]

Thanks everyone..... I appreciate the advice.

 

[BluwaterNewfs]

Why would you want to breed a pair that may produce and unacceptable color according the standard?

 

[Melissakins]

Unfortunately folks do it, maybe because of the "Rare" coloring results. Who knows, the girl in my avatar, Sophie (who's almost 5) was an owner surrender when she was 6 months old. They had originally planned to send her to a breeder to be turned into a brood bitch. Agh! bad bad bad! Wrong coloring! Fortunately we were around when those plans were being made and have had her since she was 6 months old.

 

[ardeagold]

Interestingly it's only a "rare" color because good breeders won't do it! It "could" be done routinely, without a great deal of difficulty.

So, in reality, it's not "rare", it's just uncommon. (Did that make sense?) :lol:

 

[Melissakins]

Perfect sense.

Kinda like these 'oodle' dogs you see...RARE non-shedding, etc etc

 

[new_2_newf]

Melissakins,

She may not fit standard, but I think she is beautiful just the same. I am in love with the colour of brown the newfs produce for some reason. One day, I will have a brown female.

 

[BluwaterNewfs]

A solid brown, as is grey, are acceptable colors in the USA standard but not in the Canadian. Brown & white and grey & white not are acceptable according to standard. IMO, anyone purposely breeding to produce these unacceptable colors is NOT doing the right thing. THat's not to say that there may not a recessice gene sitting somewhere in th a dogs background that breeder may not aware of because orginates back past where they have done their research.

I know for myself, I know the father/grandfather of the girls that in my breeding program carried grey. I will not knowingly breed to anything that I know or think might carrier landseer. I don't don't know if my girls carry grey, as they have not produced but that does mean that don't. I would also not knowingly breed to a dog that carries brown recessive, as I would not want to produce something that might produce cream - Totally unacceptable by any newfoundland standard I know of.

 

[Melissakins]

Sophie's parents were a Brown and a Landseer.....

I think this was an "on purpose" breeding.

She's just the sweetest thing you've ever met and quite talkative I'm happy we wound up with her

 

[ardeagold]

No doubt that Sophie is a cutie and will grow into a beautiful dog who will give you love and joy throughout her life.

The problem is that people who do this on purpose and sell them as "rare" are using it as a marketing scheme. And that's what it is...a scheme. Or a scam.

If someone went to a breeder like this who wanted a "show dog" and was told it could be shown, they would be let down. Of course people looking for show quality dogs via pet stores, the internet or BYB's SHOULD know better...but we know they don't. Many think you just go buy a dog and show it. And this type of breeder would definitely take advantage of any angle to sell a dog.

There are many websites out there promoting their "show quality" dogs that aren't show quality at all. "Rare" colors are just another rip off of the uneducated public.

 

[Melissakins]

You are absolutely right. For fun, I did a google search for brown and white Newfoundlands and was amazed at how many I saw being used in breeding "programs". and their "Rarity"

NEAT...NOT