Breeders and Court....

sarnewfie

New member
wow where to begin.
i had a pup that i sold to a couple, very nice lady it seemed.
anyway, she did not follow anything i said to do, including the penn hip at 4 months, when the dog is not in heat.
well she waited until the dog came into heat, the rating was in the lower 10%
after recieving the dog back becouse she was 2 weeks away from having her child, i took her in for a preliminary xray and she looks fine.\
she may even be showing soon.
anyway, if anyone is thinking of breeding many lessons to be learned and even with that you have no way of knowing if these people are sharks and will try to squeeze you for everything you dont have, just so they can live the high life.
below is a letter, names not disclosed, but so you all can see what can happen if you breed a litter of pups, your responsibility continues thru the whole lifetime of the dog.
##############
We are offering you an opportunity to settle this
matter prior to engaging counsel and court issues.
You are defaulting on a refund that you agreed to pay
us-I have email documentation of this.
***********
IN MY CONTRACT IT IS CLEARLY STATED THAT IFTHEY CANT KEEP THE DOG AT ANY TIME, THE DOG IS FORFEIT BACK TO ME WITH NO REFUND, THERE IS REASON FOR THIS, THE DOG IS RETURNED WITH THE PROOF OF VACCINATIONS AND PAPERWORK. THEY SIGNED AND DATED THE CONTRACT AND SO DID I.

We have paid
you over $650 ABOVE AND BEYOND the $1500 to purchase
the dog, in order for YOU to train her.
###################
UMMMM HERE IS A CASE, THAT IS UNUSUAL, I HAD NO IDEA SHE WAS PRENANT WHEN SHE CAME FOR HER INTERVIEW, WHEN IT WAS TIME FOR HER TO COME FOR THE PUP I FOUND OUT.
SHE PICKED UP PUP, AND THEY DIDNT HAVE HER LONG, AND SHE CALLED TELLING ME SHE WAS HAVING TROUBLE POTTY TRAINING, I SENT HER LINKS AND ASKED IF SHE WAS TO THE VET FOR CHECKING FOR UTI STRESS CAN KICK THEM INTO UTI. NOPE NEVER TOOK HER.
SHE ENDED UP IN THE HOSPITOL FOR A MONTH, THE CHILD WAS AT RISK, I BOARDED THE PUP FOR THEM AND TOLD THEM I WOULD WORK ON POTTY TRAINING, I TOLD HER I COULD TRAIN HER BUT THAT IF SHE WENT BACK INTO A CONFUSING ENVIRONMENT THAT THE TRAINING IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE ENVIRONMENT THEY GO BACK INTO, BTW SHE ONLY HAD ONE ACCIDANT THE WHOLE TIME, AND NEVER CHEWED ON ANYTHING IN OUR HOUSE AT ALL.
THEY PAID ME FOR BOARDING HALF OF WHAT I CHARGE OTHER PEOPLE, PUPS ARE A LOT OF WORK AND ARE VERY TIME CONSUMING.

We complied
with multiple interviews in order for you to screen us
prior to even purchasing the dog. If you felt that we
were not capable of training the dog, you should never
have sold us the dog.
###############
WE CANNOT IN OUR INTERVIEWS WITHOUT KNOWING SHE WAS PREGNANT, WITH HER BEING DISHONEST WITH ME IN THE FIRST PLACE, BE PERFECT IN OUR JUDGEMENT.

We have photographs and documentation of the severe
damage the dog caused to our home, furniture and
carpeting along with receipts for the money we paid
YOU to train this dog.
##################
AGAIN
I DID NOT TELL HER SHE WOULD HAVE A PERFECT PUPPY, SHE OBVIOUSLY DIDNT LISTEN TO MY TONNS OF EMAILS COACHING HER TELLING HER SHE HAS TO FOLLOW THE PUP EVERYWHERE, THAT SHE MUST TAKE HER TO CLASSES AND THAT THE PUP WILL BE A BIG HUGE RESPONSIBILITY.I NEVER PROMISED SHE WOULD NOT BE A PUPPY. DOGS WILL BE DESTRUCTIVE IF THINGS ARE NOT RIGHT IN A HOUSEHOLD, THESE ARE DEFINATE SIGNS. WHEN SHE WAS IN THE HOSPITOL I ASKED HER HUBBY IF I COULD HAVE THE DOG BACK AND THEY COULD TRY IN A DIFFERENT TIME, WHEN THINGS WERE BETTER. HE SAID IF SHE LOST THE BABY SHE WOULD NEED COMFORT IN A DOG.

We did everything in good
faith, spending thousands of dollars out of our pocket
in the best interest of a dog that permanantly
destroyed our property. We consulted breeders, and
trainers.
#########
IT ALL COMES DOWN TO LISTENING, AND DOING. OBVIOUSLY THEY DIDNT DO ANY OF THIS.

Your operation is fraudulent in your claims and in
your guarantee. You claim to sell dogs of a
championship line,
#############
HUH?????
GO THRU MY WEBSITE, WHERE DO I CONCENTRATE ON CHAMPIONSHIP DOGS, I CONCENTRATE ON STRUCTURE AND TEMPERAMENT, AND BEHAVIOR ISSUES ARE CAUSED BY UNKNOWING PEOPLE.

yet you sold us a dog with
behavioral problems and hip issues. You still have
not refunded the money for the hip test that you
agreed to refund to us.
##############
I TOLD HER THAT SHE SHOULD NOT PENN HIP WHEN IN HEAT, AGAIN SHE DID NOT LISTEN, THE PRELIM HERE SHOWS GOOD COVERAGE OF THE BALL IN JOINT ON BOTH HIPS, SHE IS AT FAULT FOR NOT LISTENING TO US, FOR NOT LETTING US HELP HER. I PROMISED A REFUND OF SOME SORT, MOST LIKELY THAT I WOULD OFA HER AT MY VET HERE AT MY COST.

I am a teacher and $$$$ is a psychiatrist. We have
both owned and trained several dogs and none of these
animals have ever destroyed as much property in such
little time.
##########3
lAUGH
THIS IS WHERE JASON HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR, HE STATES, OH IN OTHER WORDS ALL THE DOGS YOU HAVE OWNED HAVE DESTROYED THE HOUSE, JUST THAT THIS ONE DID IT MUCH QUICKER! THEY TOLD ME THAT HAD A LAB PREVIOUS.
AND REFERENCES DID CHECK OUT.THAT TO IS A FINE LINE, REFERNECES ONLY GO SO FAR.
OK, SO HERE IT IS, I AM NOT WORRIED, I WILL NOT RESPOND BACK UNLESS I AM SERVED WITH PAPERS, THAT IS WHEN I TAKE ALL MY DOCUMENTED PAPERWORK WITH ME TO PROVE THAT I WAS RESPONSIBLE IN EVERY WAY, MY CONTRACT ALONE IS PROOF THAT WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO, IS TO MAKE SOME MONEY.
I PAID SOMEONE TO TRANSPORT THE PUP TOHER NEW HOME, I PAID FOR XRAYS, I PAID FOR UTI THAT SHE HAD WHEN SHE ARRIVED BACK, I PAID FOR CLASSES TO TRAIN AT THE KENNEL CLUB, I PAID TO FEED HER, I PAID TO MAKE LONG DISTANCE PHONE CALLS TO NETWORK AND TRY TO FIND HER A HOME, THERE ARE MANY COSTS THAT I SOAKED UP ALL IN THE NAME OF LOVE FOR THIS DEAR PUP WHO I AM NOW PROUD TO SAY IS IN A VERY GOOD HOME.
BEWARE THOSE OF YOU WHO WANT TO BREED.
THE RESPONSIBILITY GOES FAR BEYOND THE PUPS AT BIRTH AND THE 12 WEEKS THEY ARE WITH US.
 

sarnewfie

New member
Actually karen it releases them than and rewards them for being incompetant, she did not follow any of my contract, regarding puppy classes, and other things, i am not going to reward her with a refund and than let her go do this to another breeder, i am finding out that this has happened before, and these kinds of people will keep doing this, with no regard to what they did to the puppies.
the pup is well cared for but does now have seperation anxiety and anxiety of am i doing this right, is this ok?
you know looking for reasurance.
good question to ask, but many of the contracts here are written this way to weed out the people who are careless and dont listen to us when we say having a pup is a second full time job.
my husband is as good a lawyer, he goes to court as part of his job, so i am not worried about this, he also knows the proper etiquette wich is important for presenting yourself to the judge and court.
P.S.
i offered a full refund, at the time the wife was in the hospitol, after hearing how they were not properly training her, i offered a full refund twice.
she dropped the pup off two weeks before her baby was due, becouse she would not have the time for the pup, ummmm what did i tell them? (BTW no tears or any kind of remorse at all whatsoever)
i would have offered and would have gone thru with it, but becouse of the ill care she recieved, i am not going to. My contract is solid, and i am not worried about being dragged thru the mud, one bad egg out of a dozen is not to awful bad. ;)

[ 01-11-2003, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: sarnewfie ]
 

Erin Marie

Inactive Member
Wow! Good luck Sar....some people just don't think about how much work any animal takes. I'm glad we adopted Cleo instead of thinking about a puppy. I feel bad for the poor pup. She is probably confused, but knows she is in a better place.
 

dragonmeister

Inactive Member
I'm not a breeder, but I agree with no or only a partial refund. It's too easy to take a puppy and return it for a full refund when the purchaser was not serious in the first place.
It's stories like this one that make me realize I would not make a good breeder. It's an awesome responsibiltiy.

Anne
 

sarnewfie

New member
Hi Anne, and thanx guys, the one male pup i sold the prospective buyer expressed anxiety, what if they dont get along, what if kira doesnt like riley, so i suggested and she agreed to an added addendum, or however you spell that, that they would have X amount of months to see if it would work out for them, and if not, a full refund would be given with return of pup and paperwork of shots and akc papers, and payment would be given by This date.
i do work with my people and add special addendums for speical situations.
 

Sound Bay Newfs

Active member
How annoying that this is happening! You put so much love and care into your pups it amazes me how someone could not see that!
It is obvious that these people did not have time for the pup and instead of blaming themselves, they are coming back to you. It would be good if you could get the pup back as it sounds like it was bad timing on their part and it will never work out. But it does not sound like that is going to happen. I agree that if you give them their $ back, then they have won by getting a free dog that they never should have got in the first place. Also if you do that, you will no chance of ever getting your pup back.
You should have no problem in court as you have a good reputation and you can back it up.
Let me know if you need a character witness.
 

sarnewfie

New member
NewfYork the pup was dropped off to me, two weeks before she was due to have her human child, she dropped her off, and with paperwork in order, i replaced her in a new home after having her here and seeing no destructive behavior whatsoever, no potty accidants, she did fine, so now hopes are that she will enter the show ring soon.
that would be a nice ending to this story :D
and sherry
thanx! i was advised by many not to have contact with her anymore, she is on blocksender on email and all calls are screened.
next contact if she is serious will be in court. :D
 

brendapiepiorka

New member
Ok let me get this straight, you got the puppy back, kept the money and then resold the puppy for the same price with the same contract attached? I think I may agree with karen on this one, why not just give them back there money and maybe change your wording in your future contracts with people . On second thought you as a breeder will probably run into this again someday. I hope not but if your end results of breeding and placing puppies has been mostly positive , why go thru the turmoil of a legal fight. I would say the happiness of the puppy is the most important thing now and I would put this in my memory bank and use it in the future in your dealings with perspective buyers of your pups. I totally mean no offence here, I'm just trying to understand. I guess I don't have that instinct in me to fight, I always opt for the most peaceful solutions.

Brenda
 

sarnewfie

New member
Karen
it was back in may/june that i offered twice during her stay with me, when it was obvious that she was having trouble with her.
the pup came back to me in oct
yes you are correct.
actually different breeders have different contracts and each for individual reasons, so i am open to suggestions.
the pup was NOT resold, so NO i did not get paid twice for her LOL there is no way i would sell a pup that may still have potty issues and with the mistreatment she obviously had, and with the socialization she did not give her, the new owner would have to work twice as hard, money was paid for the transport to get her from me to owner, it paid for mileage gas time off work for the people i trusted to transport her down, but that is the ONLY money that changed hands. ;)

[ 01-11-2003, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: sarnewfie ]
 

Sherry in California

Inactive Member
Karen...I think we have to have some kind of a contract, to protect both parties...but you cant keep people from lying to you, like what happen with your collie situation. And I would think that there might be some people who would not let anyone come and take back the dog, no matter what the contract says. I dont know the laws where you are at, but out here if you end up in small claims court and you win...it can still be a terrible fight to get your money and or dog back. I have found some people dont really want to keep in touch either. I know one thing I have found for sure, and that is EVERY SINGLE situation is different, and each time something like this happens...we learn from it. It doesnt mean next time around the outcome would be the same.Anytime I have had a problem I do EVERYTHING I can to work it out in a peaceful manner, and hopefully out of court too.And that has worked for me about 99% of the time.I also completely agree that it is very important to get a good feeling about the person who is interested in getting a puppy.I have learned over the years, that if I dont feel 100% confident with people, I would tell them that they need to give it all some more time, and make really sure they are ready for a puppy.(It is interesting to hear everyone's views on this too.)And the older we get and the more people we deal with , the more we get some really big surprises from people, who you thought were going to be so perfect with their new puppy. I recently got an e-mail from a lady that got a papillon puppy from me. A very nice lady, too. She had given this alot of thought for a long time. She had researched the breed, and bought some great puppy books, ect. She was READY....She writes and tells me her puppy has been getting poop on its feet, and dirting its blanket ! And was very surprised at the amount of work that was going to be involved in raising the puppy.So I called her, and we talked, and she was still glad she has the puppy,but was overwhelmed at the work. I think this happens to so many people. They think they are ready, but get over-whelmed with it all.And sometimes its just real hard to know "what is the right thing to do"
 

AmyPC

Inactive Member
Originally posted by Sherry in California:
I will NEVER understand where people get off thinking "Oh well, just take it back to to the breeder" I personally dont think that should be an option, except in very special circumstances.


When we bring our children home at birth, we have no guarantee against anything......we take what comes our way.....Why do people think it is so different with DOGS!!
Once I get a new pet, be it a dog, cat,horse,fish or bird, I deal with what ever comes my way.
You and I are on exactly the same wavelength on this Sherry, I also believe you don't give an animal back (or up). Period. Ok, my exceptions might be in extreme aggression - aggression you can't work through. I'm not even comfortable with people moving and giving their dog up. You move, you find a place the dog can go. (I will be moving out of home soon and can't take Rory as she is the family dog...my sister, my mum and me all own her together, so she will stay at home with the majority. I will be VERY SAD...but you bet I will be looking for a place no more than 10 minutes away so I can come and do all the normal stuff with her as often as I can...preferably every day! And I will have her stay over...anyway, getting off track).

I feel strongly about it partly because of my friend's mum, who is a serial puppy-purchaser. She has them for a few months (or weeks, or days...in one case years) - gets sick of them, takes them to the pound. Or leaves the gate open. She will go to the pound, take home a dog, take it back there two weeks later, leaving a false name. She must have had at least 10 dogs in the last 5 years. Also rabbits, birds, cats, etc that have gone back to the shop. Then my friend moved out with her boyfriend and they got a Rotty. After a while, decided it was too destructive and was wrecking the garden. So they thought a second dog might calm it down. Off to the pound to pick up a maltese type of thing. Three days later, both dogs were back at then pound. :mad: (We don't see eye to eye on animal raising, my friend and I).

A boyfriend of mine many years ago got a little white bulldog at a market or something. He brought it over and asked if it's foot turned out. It did, so I said yes. He promptly took it back. I have no idea why, as it didn't effect anything...it was to be a pet, not a show dog. It walked fine. It was a sweet natured thing. :( He went through three dogs in a year...four actually...he sold one he'd had for a couple of years because his mum told him he couldn't have another dog. His answer to that - ok, I'll replace the one I've got...I want a city-living pig hunting dog more than a whippet. (Luckily the whippet went to a much better home).

Sorry so long...it's a major peeve of mine.

Sar - I can't believe this woman is using destructiveness as a reason to bring it back. Ok, I can understand them using the hip thing as an excuse if they wanted to get rid of the dog in the first place...but wrecking things? Bad luck lady, puppies may DO THAT AT TIMES!!!
 

dbradley

New member
A couple of people talked about never giving up a dog...Just had to add my two cents.

I am an animal lover and do everything I can for my pets, however, this summer I had a situation where I had to return a dog I only had for a week. He was an adult male Newf, 2.5 years. We absolutely adored him and we had EVERY reason to think that he would fit into our family just perfectly. There were two instances in 3 days where he reacted somewhat nervously to my daughter...once he was startled when she approached him and gave the indication that he didn't want her there (can't describe, you had to see it) and the day we gave him back he growled at her very mildly when she approached him. It wasn't teeth baring at all but I knew instantly that I had to protect my children and return him. There is no way that I want to have even the slightest worry about an animal around my children.

So there are times when you just have to do what you have to do. Lucky for me, the breeder understood the situation and took him back no questions asked. We were devastated. Yes, when you take a pet you have to have (in my opinion) the attitude that you will deal with whatever comes your way just like you would a child but, unfortunately, sometimes dealing with it means you have no choice but to return the pet.
 

Sherry in California

Inactive Member
Nutzycat... Your situation is different...You really had no choice if you felt the dog might harm your children...Theres where I feel every situation that comes up has to be dealt with differently. You didnt raise the dog, and sometimes when you take on an adult dog, you have no way of ever knowing what that animal has been through. But I think you did the right thing.
Karen....I hate feeling 'JUDGEMENTAL" about people sometimes...and yet I feel like my puppy's life depends on the decision I have to make about its new owner...So...I JUDGE them...and you are so right, as I have aged (56)
If I have one tiny little bad feeling about someone...I will not let them take a puppy.But, Thank God...this does not happen very often.When I have a litter of newborns, I get very emotional as I look at them, so tiny and helpless...So I have a Special Prayer I say over them..asking The Lords blessing over them, and asking God to please send the right people our way...and Most of the times..My prayer is answered..
 

AmyPC

Inactive Member
Originally posted by NutzyCat:
There were two instances in 3 days where he reacted somewhat nervously to my daughter...once he was startled when she approached him and gave the indication that he didn't want her there (can't describe, you had to see it) and the day we gave him back he growled at her very mildly when she approached him. It wasn't teeth baring at all but I knew instantly that I had to protect my children and return him. There is no way that I want to have even the slightest worry about an animal around my children.

Oops, I guess I was only thinking of it from my point of view which is a childless point of view! Yes I agree with you, there are others you have to think of when you have children, a potentially dangerous dog, etc. And I also agree with Sherry that with an adult dog it can be a different scenario...you aren't responsible for how the dog turned out, unfortunately the prior owners probably are. While a pup might start out behaving badly, as we see on the boards sometimes, with the right treatment, they seem to always turn around. I don't like it when people don't perservere to turn that behaviour around.

Damian, I can totally see where you were coming from. And you're not one of the people I am thinking of - look how you've perservered with Moya! :D
 

Piratebears

New member
I cant believe that this has happened to you! it seems aparant to me that this couple took the pup thinking they could cope , but after having it for a while could not ~ esp with a new baby.They seem to have done nothing but pass the buck.They are obviously upset at themselves but are blaming YOU for the mess a pup causes! lets hope they dont expect any guarantee's the baby wont wee on the floor or draw with craon on the wall paper!
In my mind , as long as you didnt state in your contract "pup will be house trained within 6 weeks ( or the like ) " then they havent a leg to stand on ! and if you did re sell the pup for full price it would be entirely ok to do so.You sold the pup firslty with its best interests at heart and so you should be entitled to do again.
I could understand and respect return if they simply couldnt cope and felt it was best for pup that somebody else have her ... but to blame you !! do they think you personally shaped their personalities ???!!! :mad: Oh!! sorry all !! this has made me mad !! ( turning into exact replicar of Ella's "devil dog " picture as we speak !!
Zoe x x
P.s .. good luck !!!
Zo x ;)
 

brendz10

Inactive Member
Gosh, Thats terrible. The poor pup must have been so confused. What awful people. I too signed a contract like the one you mentioned, where I must return my Newf to the breeders if I can no longer take care of her and with the same condition - no refunds- but since we adore our baby there will be no chance of that happening.God help their baby, heaven forbid it makes a mess ( will she try give that back 2)LOL.
Anyway thank God you rehomed the pup but what you must have felt seeing them treat her so poorly. :mad:
 

Lucy & Wilsons mom

Inactive Member
I too signed a contract to say the pup will be returned to the breeder. This is quite common over here but it is actually not legally enforcible as animals (in the UK )are consided as "goods" and once paid for they are the property of the purchaser.
 
Top