Black with landseer recessive?

[amyk]

I just read the previous post about if landseers are more active, and people mentioned they noticed if a black newf is landseer recessive they may be more active.

I am just wondering if Eloise is landseer recessive? I'm not trying to determine why she's active, she is active, but not exceedingly so, at least not since she turned 3. But her grandmother was a landseer, would that make her landseer recessive? Or does one of her parents have to be landseer to give her that? Or is it way more complicated than that and I'd need to know much more about her lineage to determine if she is landseer recessive.

I'm not breeding her of course, she's spayed, I'm just curious.

 

[sarnewfie]

Gee largo, that was my evil twin, i had no knowlege of a post such as that
so sorry i misunderstood what you wrote.
anyway, no need to slap me on the hand, it is easy to misunderstand on the internet.
Amy
if your girl has landseer in her background depending the extent and how far back it is quite possible she is recessive.
sometimes you dont know unless you breed them.
maybe some day they will have a test for landseer gene.

 

[amyk]

Thanks! I figured there was probably more to it than just have her landseer grandma, but I just wondered.

 

[Julie/windancer]

I don't even see Largo on this post, SAR..did someone delete it ?????? Julie

 

[sarnewfie]

nope i thought this was the continuation of that same thread.
woe is me.

 

[2newffamily]

From what you have indicated, my guess is Eloise could very well be Landseer recessive but would have to breed with a Landseer male to produce Landseer pups and even then there is no guarantee. My Misha is out of a Landseer bitch and black sire. If we were to breed her with a Landseer male, the odds are in favour of producing Landseer pups. Again, no guarantee. Genetics seem to play their own game.

Makes you want to

 

[ozzysma]

i have seen landseer pups to 2 black parents so why would you have to have a landseer male to have landseer pups?

 

[sarnewfie]

http://www.newf.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000085
here is a thread from a while back on breeding landseer to pure for black and, i f you search more you will find many other interesting discusions on coat colors and how the genes work.

 

[2newffamily]

I'm certainly no expert on genetics. I was told though that the sire determines colour. Could be that both the sire and the bitch in that case were landseer recessive. Maybe???

 

[sarnewfie]

http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/Genetics/ColorGen.html
this explains the genetics i am not aware that two blacks will throw landseer, i have the experience that one parent needs to be landseer becouse black is dominant.
read the color genetics article it will explain further

 

[Pam G]

Originally posted by sarnewfie:

i am not aware that two blacks will throw landseer, i have the experience that one parent needs to be landseer becouse black is dominant.

Both Hunter and Joey's "parents" were black so 2 blacks can have landseers. Hunter was the only landseer out of 10. I think there were 2 landseers in Joey's litter of 6.

 

[sarnewfie]

Pam i assume that both parents were than L recessive? i dont see how it is possible to throw landseer without both carrying the L gene! amazing to me, i was always told two blacks wont throw L but, i didnt think about the recessives, the good ole wrench! LOL

 

[ardeagold]

And you can breed two Landseers and not get a single one in the litter.

Happened to Mira's breeder twice.

Hey...where's Xavier anyway? She's really up on the genetics of color with Newfs. She even has a website with different "unusual" colored Newfs.

I hope she's okay!!

Mira's sire was a Landseer. Her sire's parents were both Landseers. Her dam was black, and one of her dam's parents was a Landseer. Mira is black...but there were two Landseers in the litter.

I have a suspicion that's she's probably Landseer recessive. She's our "active" one...moreso than the actual Landseer!!

[ 02-17-2007, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Ardeagold ]

 

[2Paws]

Benson's grandmother and grandfather were landseers. I know there are quite a few landseers in his lineage. His mom and dad were blacks. He had two siblings in his litter that were landseers. I have been told by others that Benson has the drive and energy of a landseer.

I will never know if he is landseer recessive as we will never be breeding him. Got that taken care quite a while ago.

 

[sarnewfie]

ardea how much landseer was behind those landseer , was it landseer to landseer breeding?
that is very strange that there was not at least one landseer in there.

 

[ardeagold]

The sire was Landseer, with HIS parents both Landseer. (Landseer to Landseer breeding).

The dam was Landseer, with HER parents being Landseer to Black breeding.

So you have Mom, Dad, and Three Grandparents Landseer. One Grandparent black.

No Landseer pups......all blacks.

[ 02-17-2007, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Ardeagold ]

 

[sarnewfie]

Ardea how many generations of landseer was behind the immediate one?
i guess nothing even in geneology is set in stone.

 

[ardeagold]

Ardea how many generations of landseer was behind the immediate one?

SAR, I'm not sure. I only know that the sire and dam were Landseer, as were three out of the four grandparents.

I could look up one side for sure because the sire of that litter was also Mira's sire, and I have all of that info. But the dam was not Mira's dam.

I do know the kennel where the dam of that litter originated (in fact both the sire and the dam originated from the same kennel), so I think I could find out more about her lineage. (Think Pam G's boys....that's the kennel

)

It just struck me as odd that there were TWO Landseer to Landseer breedings in the immediate line, and there was not one landseer puppy.

[ 02-17-2007, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Ardeagold ]

 

[Sheila]

SAR, yes, 2 blacks who are landseer recessive can throw landseers. Black being dominant is not related to the piebald factor. A black (brown/landseer recessive) x black (brown/landseer recessive)can have a brown and white landseer color type. How odd would that be. Black is always dominant, but can easily be cancelled out if enough recessive genes are involved. And now that I've babbled all that I'm not sure if I'm even making sense to you all. It does make sense in my own head though, LOL

 

[sarnewfie]

Ardea, i am shocked to hear that, and, it goes to prove that even the formulas we go by are not 100% correct
Sheila, yes i totally forgot about the Recessive ! duhhh
so yeah i can see how that can happen than, but, i would assume BOTH blacks had to be recessive, not just one!