Bad News

[Kelly]

I have not had time to even browse on Newf Net lately, but something has come up and I really need everyone's advice. Owen started being lame about 5 months ago. He was fine one minute and lame the next. He had never been lame a day in his life up until he turned two. He competed in the show ring and we were often told that he moved beautifully. Anyway, He has been lame (for short periods of time) on three different occasions since November. The vet finally set up xrays (which were done yesterday) My worst fear has come true. My baby has hip dysplasia. Both hips are very bad. The vet said very little of the femural heads are even in the sockets. She doesn't know how he has done so well up to this point. As you can imagine,I'm devastated. The vet put him immediately on Glycoflex, (which after reading some of the posts on here I'm not sure is the best choice)and we have pain medication for him as needed. My vet has set up a consult with a surgeon. She thinks that is the route to go, however I have done a lot of reading and I'm not sure. She mentioned a Femoral Head Ostectomy, where they literally cut off the femural head allowing a false joint to form. It sounds awful, but having Owen in continuous pain sounds much worse. Has anyone had a Newf go through this procedure and what was their outcome? I read that this procedure works fairly well in dogs under 50lbs, but may not be successful with heavier dogs. My head is spinninig. I'm so confused about the options. They also sometimes try to stabalize the joint by pinning the femoral head to the hip socket, but that's not guaranteed to work and often they have to go back and do the FHO anyway. We can also try acupuncture for the pain. There's a very good vet near me that specializes in that. We can also opt to just treat him medically for the pain flareups. I know many of you have had experience with this. Please help me sort through my options and figure out what's best for Owen.
Kelly

 

[Jeannie]

I don't have any advice to offer, but I hope the best for you and Owen.

 

[sarnewfie]

oh i am so sorry!!!
but you know why he has done so well up till now?
muscle!!!
there is a newf way north of me
without a ball on the joint, and they kept her active swim and walk on sand and walk up hills
and glucosamine chond and msm
msm is very important,.
my humble opinion and this is personal, my choice, is ditch the glyco flex
it did nothing for my guys nothing, emmett was on it for an injury did nothing for him, the joint health was incredible, for him.
keep him healthy excersise him walk up hills
she if that muscle can build up and if it makes a difference for him.

 

[Annie Milliron]

I'm so very very sorry! I do know that there are several people on Newf Net that have dogs with hip dysplasia... and I'm sure they'll be happy to share information with you.

In the meantime, I'm sending all of you good thoughts and prayers... hugs too!

 

[Varmint]

Here would be my advice. Make sure that the specialist is up to date on new surgeries for this. There are some specialists who do a "old school method" which is not bad, but the new techniques being used for joint surgeries are less invasive and not as painful. Are there any vet schools in your area? There is an excellent specialist in Indinanapolis, I can call him and find out who he would recommend in you area if you want. Just PM me if you do.

Do NOT do the pinning. This technique does not work with giant breeds. Doing the acupuncture would be excellent after the surgery. Doing it now only treats the symptoms and not the disease. In a couple months/years you will be just in the same position that you are now.

And I will give my advice I give everyone. Get a second opinion, if you haven't already.

Good luck, and if you need anything else, let us know. We are here for you.

 

[Largo]

So sorry to hear this Kelly. Bax is dysplastic in one hip. I have choosen a nutritional and exercise approach. And it is working him. I would definately have another Dr. take a look at his xrays and get another opinion before you choose to do surgery. Although that maybe the best option in Owen's case. If you would like to know the specifics of my approach, pm me k'doke.

Big hugs to you and Owen.

 

[NewfMom]

Our 7 year old girl has bad hip dysplasia as well as bad hips and knees.

We looked into surgery when she was young. They discussed hip replacement and the FHO. One thing to check into is the recovery time and what they can do during recovery. We were leaning towards the FHO because it had a good prognosis and the recovery was so much easier on the dog (and us ) Unfortunately, they recommended against surgery in Kimber's case because "all her joints are so bad if I started I wouldn't know where to stop". As I get more experience I think that translates into the other joints being too unhealthy to take the extra strain while healing.

For Kimber, the pain did improve as she got older, about 3-4 years old. One thing that helped immensely was adequan injections. Kimber started on Glyco-flex but when we moved, our new vet preferred Cosequin. I can't tell you whether Glyco-flex or Cosequin did more for her. Neither one was enough by itself so we added the Adequan which seemed to help most of all.

We also used first aspirin, then Rimadyl and then Deramaxx in addition for pain control.

The Glyco-flex or Cosequin are supplements intended to help the joints stay healthier. Adequan is also a suppliment intended to help or heal the joint (I believe it works mostly on the cartilage). The difference is because it is injected instead of digested, it goes more directly to the joint.

Aspirin, Rimadyl, Deramaxx, and some others are for pain relief. Rimadyl and Deramaxx are non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. They will keep swelling in the joints down somewhat and provide pain relief.

Thus far we've been able to manage Kimber's joints fairly well using that combination. Depending on how bad the pain is, you may even want to consider using Adequan until the surgery. With Kimber she was on Glyco-flex and Rimadyl and still in obvious pain. When we added the Adequan she went back to being a puppy jumping on the beds again.

Good luck to you and Owen.

 

[Pam G]

First of all, I am just so sorry to hear this news. I can imagine how devasting this is for you. If he was my dog, I would definately get a second opinion and try Adequan shots and accupuncture first to see if they helped before scheduling any surgery. As far as the Glyco flex goes I have my own opinion on that too. Hogan was on Glyco flex lll for a long time. It wasn't until I switched him to the Cosequin DS that I realized the glyco flex wasn't doing much for him . The cosequin has helped tremendously..almost too much

now I have to watch them carefully because he is so playful and wants to wrestle with Hunter especially after meals. Quite a different dog since the Cosequin
Good luck Kelly, Please keep us posted.
Hugs to you and Owen.

[ 04-20-2005, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Pam G ]

 

[Blacknewfs]

I'm sorry to hear about Owen's hips...it's awful to see them in pain. I know it seems overwhelming right now, but once you have figured out what is best for Owen and start a regime that works for him you will feel so much better about all of this. Take your time, and don't make any rash decisions. Getting a second opinion is a great idea.

I'm a firm believer in using the least intervention possible....that means to me surgery is a last resort, when all other options have been tried and failed, or when it is clear that it's the only option that will be effective.

If I'm reading your post correctly, Owen has had 3 episodes of lameness since November, which to me doesn't indicate a dog in immediate need of surgery. It sounds like you have time to make a careful and educated decision. He has had a lot of pain-free time over the last few months also I take it? Do you recall what precipitated the onset of the lameness? Was he playing and running harder than usual? You mentioned that you have pain meds to administer as needed, has he needed them and if so, have they been effective?

Surgery may in fact be what Owen needs, but first you may wish to explore preventing and managing pain, rather than jumping into a surgery that may be unnecessary. As SAR pointed out, muscle mass goes a long way towards easing the symptoms of this disease when combined with a healthy (I mean lean) body weight.

My 4 yr old, Marin, has HD also, but we have no intention of telling her that. When we adopted her from rescue last summer she could barely walk due to the pain. Over the last 9 months we have helped her drop over 20 lbs (she still has 10 to go!), put on a lot of lean muscle mass, and as of about 2 weeks ago, she is off all pain meds completely and doing very well. She has gone from being on a high dose of pain meds daily, to needing absolutely no pain meds, and she is running, playing and prancing around like a puppy. It can be done. IMO, it's worth a try.

Good luck with your decision, I know it's a lot to absorb all at once.

 

[luvxl k 9]

I would definately keep surgery as a last resort!!! Everyones advice is great, nutrition, acupuncture, chiropractic etc. can really work wonders with these problems and hopefully can prevent the need for surgery as it did in Apache's case!!
Hugs and prayers going out to you both!!

 

[Kelly]

Thank you for all your wonderful advice. I'm doing a lot of reading and researching. It seems that I have more options than I realized. I am going to a consult with a surgeon on Friday, however I'm not going to jump into anything.
Owen doesn't seem in constant pain. He has episodes (usually after a day when he's been more active). Since November there have been only three episodes and they only lasted a few days. On most days he runs and plays and acts like nothing,s wrong.
I will keep you all updated on how Owen is and what we decide to do. Thanks again.

 

[FuzzyDustBunnies]

Kelly,
I am so sorry for what you're going through with Owen. (I feel like I am writing to myself with the Kelly & Owen combo!)

I know exactly what you're going through. Everything gets overwhelming. You've gotten alot of good info here...mull it all over and go from there. Get more than one opinion. I had Owen's vet, chiropractor, a university, another vet and the surgeon look at Owen's x-rays and they all told me the same thing. Based on his lack of use, muscle deterioration, shape of his hip (5% in the socket), they all recommended a hip replacement. I also spent alot of time talking to the stud dog owner and Christine, and getting input from anyone willing to give it.

One thing that I will ALWAYS remember is something that Cissy's vet told me. He said he has seen xrays far worse than my Owen's. But the dog showed no symptoms, or very few. It led a completely normal life. He said you have to look at how the dog, as an individual, is functioning. He said based on xrays alone, those dogs would need a hip replacement. However to see them run around you'd never guess what those hips looked like.

It's devastating news to hear your dog has bad hips. And it's hard to sort it all out and feel you're making the right decision. We're all here for you. Hugs to Owen. We're all here for you.

 

[ardeagold]

Kelly, I'm so sorry to hear this about Owen. I don't have much to add, except to not only get a second opinion, get a couple of Ortho opinions. A specialist can determine much more about the joint "malformation" than a general practitioner can, and can give you many treatment options.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the quality of the Xrays due to the positioning of the body while Xrays are being taken. It came up here a while ago I believe. If the Xrays are not taken properly, then you can get incorrect readings. Just a slight shift in the body can give entirely different readings.

Here is an article that I found to be very informative about the importance of proper positioning when doing an Xray of a dog's hips. It has photos of Xrays so you can SEE the differences. There's one with a dog that was determined to have "bad" hips, and nine months later has hips that are perfectly fine. Not a miracle, bad Xrays:

The Importance of Good Positioning on Canine Hip Xrays

Note...in the article, written in 1997, some comments are made about a dog with very bad hips needing to be put down to keep it from living a lifetime of pain (GSD). Today, that is not the case at all. Surgical procedures have improved dramatically over the past few years, and a dog that couldn't be helped then, can be now. So, just chalk that statement up to being "out of date".

I hope you find that surgery isn't needed, and that Owen can live a happy, pain-free, long life with out it! Hugs to both of you!

[ 04-20-2005, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: Ardeagold ]

 

[Leslie]

Oh Gosh Kelly, I'm so sorry. Here is some info on natural treatment for bad hips and knees, highly condensed.

CM (Cetyl Myristylate) is a wonderful, easily absorbed compound that has been proven to do a whole bunch of stuff. First and foremost, it boosts up the synovial fluid in the joints. In a lot of arthritic dogs, people too, the fluid turns watery and needs a little help getting back to its thickened, gel-like state. You can get it at your HFS (Health food store) and follow human dosages by weight.

MSM - used very effectively for treating inflammation, pain, soreness, strains and cramps. Also thought to relieve allergies, balance the digestive system and prevent yeast growth.

Rutin and Hesperidin are some bioflavinoids that are great for expanding tiny blood vessels and are thought to make some arthritis medications more effective.

We'll be sending our blessings!

 

[Giddyuppy]

Originally posted by Kelly:
She mentioned a Femoral Head Ostectomy, where they literally cut off the femural head allowing a false joint to form. It sounds awful, but having Owen in continuous pain sounds much worse. Has anyone had a Newf go through this procedure and what was their outcome?

I had to have that done to one of my dogs...blk. lab/golden mix...at the tender age of 5 months. His femoral bone was no where NEAR the socket.

He lived to be a grand old man...16 1/2 years old. The socket formed what is referred to as "false cartilage".

Prayers he can get by without ANY surgery.

 

[IrishMist428]

Kelly I am so sorry you are faced with this. I am sure it's very overwhelming to absorb at first. Great info here from experienced people. I'm sure you will weigh all your options to come to a decision.

There is a yahoo group you may want to join also.

Ortho Dogs

to you and Owen.

 

[blstarke]

I am so sorry abouy Owen, my prayers are with you

 

[BoundlessNewfs]

I hope my PM helped you. There has been SUCH an improvement in Maggie since we started swim therapy, massage, and doing those exercises I told you about. The orthopaedic surgeon we had was wonderful, too. He did NOT want to rush her to surgery. He actually recommended the exercise route, first, to see if strengthening the muscles would do enough to hold her joints together and get her more balanced again.

The holistic vet explained a couple of things, too. She said that IF surgery is being considered, you reeeeeeeeally need to FIRST build up the muscles and get an increased blood flow to the area, because that will help them heal faster (she called it "pre-hab"). Also, she said that the surgery in which the femoral head is removed can be done at any stage...so there is NO need to rush into that. The total hip replacement, however, requires a certain amount of "good" bone in the hip joint, to be successful...so you can't wait too long, if that's the one you need to do. However...she said she has personally treated a great number of newfs and other large/giant breeds, who have horrible hips, yet NEVER needed to have surgery. The owners were diligent in keeping the dogs in condition, and being careful about the activities they were allowed to do, and the good muscle tone held their joints together sufficiently.

Give Owen a hug, and welcome back to NN!

 

[Katie]

I am just seeing this.....I am so sorry to hear.....sending good thoughts your way.....and peace in your decision

 

[Kelly]

Thank you all for the prayers and kind words. It really helps. I took Owen in this morning for the consult with the surgeon (just to see what my options were). I really liked him and felt that he presented my options without pressuring me in any way. He first stated that Owen was getting around much better than 90% of the dogs he sees for the same problem. He stated that Owen does not seem to be in constant pain. He agreed that the xrays were very troubling. Even though Owen is doing fairly well now, the Doc said we are headed for trouble down the road. There are already arthritic changes noted in the hip socket. Our options are
1. To do nothing surgically right now. We can just watch him carefully, give him his Glycoflex (or whichever brand I decide on) And treat him medically for his pain flareups. The surgeon said based on Owen's xrays he thinks we will start seeing more frequent flareups

2. We can opt to do a total hip replacement. Although both of Owen's hips are bad, The Dr. said the prevaling view of most vets is to only do one hip. HE, does not necessarily agree with that. If given a choice he would do both hips. He said if Owen was his dog that would be what he would do. (of course) He would do the surgery soon instead of waiting because he said Owen has good muscle mass now. He has not experienced any atrophy. He said the recovery time would be much less and less taxing on Owen. The surgery could be done later but we might not get the same results.
3. The third option is the femoral head ostectomy (hope I spelled that correctly). The Dr. stated this would be his second choice. He said larger dogs have a harder time with this one. He has done this surgery many times and would do it if we wanted to go that way, but again he stated he thinks the total hip replacement is the way to go. He does not even do the surgery himself. He flies in a special surgeon from Ohio who has much more experience with this sort of thing.

I should add that I am looking for a ramp for my SUV for Owen to be able to get in and out without taxing his hips, however in the abscence of one this morning, Owen hopped right in without any problem. He seems to be right back to his old self.

I still don't know exactly what we are going to do but at least now I know what my options are.

Thanks again for all your help
Kelly