Back in the Crate

[Nicole5158]

So...Byron has been doing so well being out of the crate these last couple of days, but the strangest thing happened this morning. Everything started out normally. Byron came into the bedroom at the usual time and woke me up in the usual way (by licking my face, haha), so I took him out to pee and we continued the morning routine. But about a half of an hour later Byron did something very unroutine. He peed on the floor!!! I know he didn't have to go because he had just gone out and he just stood there, peeing and looking at me like "what? I felt like peeing here on the floor!" I was so dumbfounded that instead of saying "NO!" I said "Byron, what are you doing?!" It was so bizarre! He literally only had maybe 2 accidents in his whole life! He has not have an accident since he was 10 weeks old, so I don't know what's going on. I put him back in his crate this morning, not that I think he needs it for potty training, but because maybe he can't handle the change? I don't know, has this happened to anybody? Sorry for the long post.

 

[newfloverqc]

I'm not an expert by any means, but I think that was a test.

Ceilidh tried once the same thing, all the while looking straight at me. A very firm,"No ! Outside !" and taking her collar and bringing her outside were all that was needed to prevent it ever happening again....

 

[Bluedog]

We just bought a very expensive Persian area rug a couple of months ago. It hadn't been on the floor more than 10 minutes and in comes miss Emmy...squat..pee...staring at me the whole time, as if to say, "this is mine"! She just turn 2 yrs. in October, and I had just taken her out 15 min. before. They will constantly test you and claim their territory. Be firm, hang in there, and most of all....try not to laugh in front of them.

 

[dogger]

It is most likely a test, but just in case I would watch for signs of a bladder infection.

 

[blstarke]

it could be a number of reasons:
Confusion, Bladder infection
How old is Bryon again?
When you see him pee outside, make sure you praise him.
Make sure you use vinegar to neutralize the urine smell inside
Don't use the crate as punishment, you have to teach him right from wrong.
As soon as he had went inside, you should have immediately brought him outside to show him that is the appropriate place to go
Judy

 

[Nicole5158]

Byron is 5.5 months and I know he knows better. I grabbed his collar and took him outside, but he didn't go. I just went on with the morning as usual and wasn't really upset, just confused. I thought he might be mad at me for some reason or have a medical problem. Now I'm worried that putting him back in the crate will further confuse him.

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

I think 5 and a half mo is too young to leave him out of the crate. He hasn't even got to his "teenage" stage. That is when a lot of problems will begin. Some of the mischieviousness can be dangerous when you are away from home. You are better off leaving him crated till at least a year so you don't regret taking him out of the crate too soon.

 

[NewfyChic]

OK. Our trainer told us with Casey when we would see her start to squat and even during to walk over to her and pull her ear with a firm "NO" Then walk her outside and say "GO PEE" praise her EVERY SINGLE TIME she does. We never do treat training as that is bribery to me and you don't always have those neat little treats in public shall you need one. Just do basic command and hand signals. As for crate training I don't quite understand it's purpose and I will never put any of my dogs in a crate. How are they suppose to learn what they can and cannot do in your home?? Our trainer is not fond of crating for large breed dog puppies. He says it mentally says to them they are not worthy and become very suspicious more easily. Great! a paranoid dog...LOL but any way stick with the basic commands. It is harder for you to learn than the dog. Then at least once a day rub her head with both hands and make sure to rub the ears gently saying "Good dog" etc... We have never,ever,ever....had a problem since. Hope this helps ya. I know it has us. Our trainer is awesome. He is very educated and knows all of his breeds. He trains the Police and FBI dogs here so I feel he is quite up to my standards...LOL.

[ 12-02-2004, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: NewfyChic ]

 

[BluwaterNewfs]

I don't know what the rush is to getthis puppies out of their crates and 'free' in the house is. None of dogs are allowed free in the house at night or when we are not home until they are at least 1 year old if not more.

There times I still will put any of my dogs in crate including my 12 year old. They do not get confused by it. Right now my 4 year old bitch is in season and she is crate so my intact male will not 'get' her. He stays in his crate right next to her.

Dogs are den animals but instinct. The crate serves as their den. They see it as a safe place to be.

Our trainer is not fond of crating for large breed dog puppies. He says it mentally says to them they are not worthy and become very suspicious more easily.

That is the biggest piece of malarkey I have ever heard!! They learn by training them, by spending time, effort & patience. They learn to become housebroken because they by instinct they don't want to pee/poop where they eat and sleep. When a puppy is fed and must sleep in its crate, they learn not to go inside. I both big and small dogs and they each have a crate of their own. And, no, I don't ahve a big house.

I know many newf breeder's that will not let you leave with your pup without a crate who has been breeding newfs for almost 40 years and is very well known in the newf world.

Vets & groomers will appreciate a dog that can been crated if the dog has to be left there at all. Many motels that allow dogs require the dog be crated in th room. And many events, when the dog is not being exhibited or tested need very often needs to have a place where they can rest -- a crate is that perfect place and it allows you to be able to eat and go to the rest room -- places that dogs are almost never allowed.

 

[Giddyuppy]

Originally posted by NewfyChic:
OK. Our trainer told us with Casey when we would see her start to squat and even during to walk over to her and pull her ear with a firm "NO" Then walk her outside and say "GO PEE" praise her EVERY SINGLE TIME she does.

Pull her EAR?! WOW!!!

 

[Nasus]

Joan is 100% correct in everything she said. and pulling on a dogs ear might get u a good bite one day. 5 months.. a little young. If u take it away now u might not be able to bring it back later when he becomes a teen, and then u will need it.. when he tests u then at over 100lbs.. i don't think u want to pull his ear LOL

 

[berryann]

Any trainer who pulled my dog's ear would be out on HIS ear, faster than a newf can eat a liver brownie.

And I'm not pulling your leg!

 

[BluwaterNewfs]

Thanks Susan & Giddy - I forgot to comment on the ear pulling. I don't see how that stop them from peeing in the house. Sounds cruel to me, But then so is throwing the dog in the water to see if it learns to swim. No way would I do that or let someone do it in my presence.

[ 12-02-2004, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: JTNewf ]

 

[NewfyChic]

Originally posted by JTNewf:

There times I still will put any of my dogs in crate including my 12 year old. They do not get confused by it. Right now my 4 year old bitch is in season and she is crate so my intact male will not 'get' her. He stays in his crate right next to her."

This I can understand.

"Dogs are den animals but instinct. The crate serves as their den. They see it as a safe place to be. "

Shouldn't they feel safe in your home?



"They learn to become housebroken because they by instinct they don't want to pee/poop where they eat and sleep. When a puppy is fed and must sleep in its crate, they learn not to go inside."

I just feel I personally do not need a crate to effectively train this. Never had a problem before unless Newfs are harder than a Lab...LOL

"I know many newf breeder's that will not let you leave with your pup without a crate who has been breeding newfs for almost 40 years and is very well known in the newf world."

My pup is being shipped by air to me and yes it will have a crate. But it will not be used in my house. Just my opinion. I do not want to be scolded for having my own way of raising my precious dogs. I know many of you will disagree and that is fine. We must agree to disagree is how I see it. As for the ear pulling it is a form of discipline to them. I don't mean to yank their ear and make them upset, a tug. Nothing more. Geeze...........

Sorta like those pinch collars they use....NOT!!!!! That is plain out cruelty...Not what I do.

[ 12-02-2004, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: NewfyChic ]

 

[kzdz]

Since Byron is 5.5 months old, I would be willing to bet that the peeing is totally unrelated to the crating. I know a lot of the dogs on here have gone through a second stage of "puppyhood" around 6 months old where they just try to retest how far they can go. With Quark it seemed like he was trying to determine whether or not the rules he learned when he first came home still applied.

That said, I still don't trust Quark out of his crate when I'm going to be gone. He's 3.5 years old. He is loose in the house at night, though.

Kelli

 

[BluwaterNewfs]

Yes they learn to be comfortable in the house but instinct tells the a den is safe and a den is usually a small enclosed area. That is why many dogs will curl up in a corner or surrounded with as many sides as possible.

Tug or Yank onthe ear - that to me is not the way to tachthem not to pee in the house.

On crate issue, I can agrees to disagree but not on this ear tug thing.

 

[csk1134]

Sorta like those pinch collars they use....NOT!!!!! That is plain out cruelty...

You just opened a whole other basket of worms. There are alot of people on here who swear by pinch or prong collars (not choke) for newfs. Have you ever tried one? I mean around a part of your body to see what they feel like? I have, and I don't think they are cruel at all. My Newf walks perfectly on a leash and doesn't pull at all. But he's nearly 100lbs and will probably 160 or so when he's done. Heaven forbid something come along that was so great that even the best trained dog can't resist and he darts out in the street after it. Nothing I could possibly do would restrain him if he really had his heart set on going after it. All the training in the world can't guarantee to me that it's 100% all the time.

You may want to keep your mind open to some of these things (like crate training). The people on this forum account for years (and years and years) of newf experience. Newfs are very, very smart dogs. I often times see people say the differences in training labs and newfs are night and day... the lab will happily jump of the bridge if you tell them to because they want to please you. The newf will look at you like your nuts, tell you to go first and that he'll meet you at the bottom.

Good luck with your new puppy. Know that you have a great resource here when you have problems or questions (and you will). But please please please don't go into this with blinders on.

 

[Nasus]

Newfychic.. i used a prong on Kelvinn for about 6 weeks, He would pull me to my knees if i didn't teach him it was in his interest to walk beside me and not pulling me. when he would see another dog all bets were off, he would just take off. after 6 weeks of the prong. he got the msg and now is the perfect dog to walk with.. a child can walk him now.. we don't even use a choke on him.. Cruel? not really, some dogs need to have a cause and effect brought right to the front. remember.. he would do it to himself if he pulled.

Susan

 

[Nasus]

Newfychic.. Coral is right.. there are ppl here that i give a great deal of respect to, they know what there talking about. Whenever i have had a problem i have turned to these folks, i am not a novice with Newfoundlands.. Kelvinn is my 4th but put all these great minds together and u have the encyclopedia of "Newfdom" right at your fingertips. Good luck with your pup.. and remember u have friends here that will help u thru it all.

Susan

 

[sarnewfie]

this is how i teach my pups
when i see them go pee, outside, on the leash it is GOOD POTTY
if they are outside playing and squat on their own GOOD POTTY!!!
if they pee in my house i rumble and grumble, i make them sit or lay by the mess i am cleaning, they KNOW in no uncertain terms mom is very unhappy with this mess
and i mean i grumble.
than i take them out, and when they go i prasie the hell out of them and give them treats, treats are not bribery if done right.
an ear pinch is simply unacceptable and that trainer would get a pinch in the ear from me if they ever did it to my baby
P>S< \
i think ear pinchers should jump off a DOCK and tie their ear to the back door first

[ 12-02-2004, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: sarnewfie ]