Aggression

[JPerrelli]

Although I haven't posted in a while (husband suffered a minor stroke shortly before the holidays), I've been reading all your posts.
I seem to be having more aggression issues with Maddie, my Newf who just turned 1 year old this month. I was vacuming the other day (something I do on a daily basis) and she tried to attack the vacum. Not just barking, but was trying to tear it to pieces. I finally had to gate her in the other room. The next day, I had just come back from walking her, and was getting ready to take my 4 yr. old Pyr for her walk, when two kids walked by the house. My Pyr started barking, and Maddie turned on my Pyr and attacked her. Maddie and I had just seen the kids when we were walking, and they had stopped to pet her. I had a hard time seperating them, and finally managed to pull Maddie (who was on top) off of Zoey (my Pyr.) Zoey suffered a scratched eye, and a punture to her chest. Needless to say, Zoey has been trying to stay away from Maddie. I got Maddie from Rescue about 7 months ago. She has never been too friendly with other dogs, but has always been fine with people and kids. My 7 yr. old niece was over last night, and loves Maddie. They played with her ball for 3 hours, but I terrified to leave the room just in case. When I adopted her from rescue, her name was Sassy, which is what her pesonality was. Walking her was a challenge, as I was terrified to pass another dog or see a squirrel. She would get completly out of control and jump on me, and try to bite her leash. I found a great obedience class for her with trainers that own 3 Newfs. The class has helped me get control of Maddie, and lessen my fear of meeting other dogs when we walk. At times she seems to want to play with other dogs, but I'm never sure how it will go, and don't want someone elses dog to get hurt.
So, I have two questions. Do you think this attack of my other dog was her trying to be the dominent dog? And, how I can try to socialize her more? I'm also wondering if there could be a medical issue involved. I read some previous posts about checking thyroid?
Family members are telling me I should give her back to rescue, but that's just not an option. I'm very attached to her, and she's always been very sweet with us and anyone that comes to our house. I think Zoey and Maddie can eventually work the alpha roll out, and I'll watch them closely in the meantime. If I can't socialize her with other dogs, we'll continue to keep our distance when walking.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dbradley]

Wow Janet, that's rough. I don't have the experience to give you any advice but I can say I would have a hard time having a dog around that showed any aggression. I'd be too worried about the kids.

I hope things work out for you!

 

[sarnewfie]

Hi Janet
it sounds like she is alpha, and is staking her territory, iwould be ever vigilant when the two girls are together, is there a bahavioral specialist near you that can help you?
it is so hard for us to help over the net, when there may be many factors that need to be "seen" along with what you have written, it is possible that your girl would do better as an "only" dog or with a male.
sometimes two females of different or same breeds wont get along, no matter how hard you try.
i wish i could be more help to you, but maybe to a person specializing would be invaluable to you about now.
so sorry to hear about your hubby, i hope he is recovering well.

 

[dragonmeister]

Hi,
I have the grandmother to my two boys. She is a queen and will not tolerate any female dog in her territory to the point that I have a muzzle for her when I take her where there are other dogs.
I agree, some females will never get along with another female. Is she spayed?
Anne

 

[JPerrelli]

I'm going to check with the trainers and rescue tomorrow to see about a behavioral specialist. I've been watching them closely, and haven't left them alone without being supervised. When I go out, I plan on seperating them in different rooms.
Maddie seems to want to play with Zoey, but Zoey's leary of Maddie now. They've been playing, but I'm so scared it may lead to another fight, I keep breaking up the play.
Our first Newf had to be put to sleep because of a heart condition, and I don't think I could stand letting go of another.
We actually got another female because all our friends that brought their dogs to play had males, and we knew Zoey would get along with any other dog male or female. Unfortunatly, Maddie has had a rough start in life, and will only play with a couple of our friends dogs.
Both girls are spayed.
Thanks for the advise, if anyone has any other ideas, I'd love to hear them.

 

[sarnewfie]

So far what you are doing is good, the key with these two is not to let the play escalate, for when it does they will challenge each other or maddie the pyr.
i have to be careful with my two girls when hormones are flying, the play is not allowed to escalate,they start to bump chests in mid air, and from than on the challenging starts, this after running like maniacs. these two are fine alone in the house, becouse things are relaxed, but in your situation, i would not trust anything but a crate between the two becouse of the ruff start maddie has had, you wont know the trigger.
i wouldnt trust anything but a solid door between the two or a crate.

 

[Annie Milliron]

I would praise both dogs for playing together properly... and as SAR stated, do not allow the play to escalate. Don't discourage proper play... that sends bad messages to both dogs. Pay close attention... don't get distracted. Also, if you're by yourself and they get into a fight... try a water gun. I know someone who has a large shepherd who tends to be dog aggressive... they use a "super-soaker" with good sucess.

Also, it's impreative that you enroll Maddie in Obedience training asap. It's good that you've contacted Rescue.. I'm sure they can advise you.

Also, another thing to consider... is a visit to the vet... to make sure Maddie is feeling alright.

Hang in there!

 

[JPerrelli]

Thanks for suggestions. I will get a "super-soaker". I had a hard time seperating them. I tried thowing water from their water bowl on them, then threw the stainless steel water bowl on the ground next to them thinking the noise would scare them, but I finally had to grab Maddie by the collar. I really didn't want to get my hands that close, but didn't have a choice.

Maddie's been in training since I got her, and does very well. She just seems nervous. Sometimes noises and other dogs don't bother her, and other times she freaks out. I never know how she's goig to react to a situation.
I have a call into the vet to rule out any medical issues.
I'm hoping rescue has some suggestions.
Thanks for all your help.

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

Sorry to hear about your husband, Janet. Hope he is doing OK now.
It sounds like you are doing the right things to work thru Maddie and your Pyr conflicts. The one thing I would do is to continue to try to avoid situations before they start. Unfortunately that is not always easy to do. Hopefully over time the training you are given Maddie will pay off, but unfortunately her past experiences are going to be hard for her to forget.

 

[JPerrelli]

Hubby is doing fine. Luckily it was a very minor stroke, a good warning though.
I had another incident with Maddie and Zoey this morning. I was eating a bowl of cereal, and both girls were in the living room with me. I started to give them each a piece of cereal, which I do almost every morning, and I could see it in Maddies eyes that she was going to go for Zoey. And she did. I seperated them, gated Maddie in the living room, and told her no, and bad girl. Then I turned my back and ignored her for about 15 minutes until she settled down.
Talked to rescue yesterday, and and they thought the first time was an isolated incident. I was hoping that was the case, but unfortunately not so.
The vet doesn't feel it's her thyroid, but I'm going to bring her in anyway.
My husband is out of town visiting his son, and this is the first time he hasn't been around. Both dogs have been very "velcro" since he left. My Pyr is ALWAYS outside (her choice), but she's been wanting to come in more often. I'm not sure, but I'm wondering if his absence has anything to do with their behavior. I'm going to see what happens when he gets back tomorrow.
Crossing my fingers that this is the problem.

 

[sarnewfie]

Janet
glad to hear hubby is doing well and it was mild.
one more thought.
if the pyr is staying in more, do you think maybe the pyr has something "out of whack" that the newf can sense?
somehow though i dont think that would be the case, and somehow i am wondering, if this is just going to be a continual thing for you and maddie.
good luck.

 

[Annie Milliron]

Glad to hear your husband is ok... that must have been really scary for you!

I would avoid feeding the dogs when you're eating... you may even want to separate them when they eat. Are they crate trained? I can't remember.... if so, try feeding them in their crates... if not, gate one off in the kitchen.

I would do anything to prevent another incident. Hang in there!

 

[JPerrelli]

Thanks for eveyone's thoughts. I don't crate them anymore. They've been fine in the house when left alone.
I went to a new vet today, one that the trainers I'm working with uses. They are very familiar with Newfs. He didn't think it necessary to do a thyroid test on Maddie. He said she would be displaying some type of other symtoms such as poor coat, bad eating habits, being lazy. He feels she's trying to be the alpha dog, which does make sense to me. She's been bossy since she came here. He wants us to treat her as the alpha to see if that makes a difference. I don't think Zoey will mind since she's so laid back, and doesn't fight back with Maddie. I'm going to try that and see what happens.
I also plan on taking her out more, away from the house, like to Petsmart, and quiet times at the local dog park ( on leash). She seems to be more aggressive with dogs around what she consideres "her territory". She was great with the other dogs at the vets today, and great with the dogs in our training class. The vet thinks it may be territorial aggression. I'm willing to try anything at this point.
Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.