A Question for the Breeders

[KatieB]

I agree with the above that you need to spend time working with your girl and going to working events and seeing the other newfs there. Also spend some time at shows and decide what type of dog you like and want and from which lines. Then contact those breeders and see which you click with. We had done working things with Murphy (berner) and with Bella (our first newf) and I felt fairly confident with those but knew I would need help and mentoring with conformation. Mojo's breeder has been awesome and incredibly helpful with showing, grooming, judges, etc. And he's an amazing working dog as well. He is on a co-ownership with a contract that we fully agreed to and that she made sure we understood prior to signing it. I trust her and have no issues with the contract or the co-ownership. It's worked out just fine for us. Bella was sold limited reg and we did discuss showing her but decided not to. Her breeder said she would give us full registration if we really wanted to show her but would need a new contract regarding breeding etc. I think the most important thing is to find the line that you like and then see if you click with that breeder and if so the rest will fall into place. Make sure you understand whatever contract it is that they have and teh terms of the co-ownership. It's been a fabulous situation for us...we got an amazing dog from a breeder we love who we hope to get all the rest of our newfs from!!

 

[ardeagold]

I would love to have a breeder that also acted as a mentor but being at some of the shows I've also seen breeders who were more like ring leaders. They would have multiple dogs there with their different co-owners, but the breeder would be barking orders at all of them. I can't deal with being barked at and/or ordered around.

Really? I honestly can say I've never seen that. I've seen handlers bark orders...but not breeders.

However, in a show situation, it's extremely busy, especially for people who are there with several dogs. And the majority of people are there for one reason... to show the dogs, and to win (or they wouldn't be there).

During the show, they're pretty much all business, especially the handlers. They're focused and serious, and that's what you want them to be. They need to zone into their job and focus on YOUR dog, when it's time. They have to do this with every dog they're handling that day. And they're very good at it. It's their LIFE...every day of every week. They've got a zillion things going on at once, and believe me, it's a very difficult job.

"Barking orders" may be due to time constraints, and stress at that given moment. And once you're in the situation, you'll understand much more clearly. Chances are, they're very different people once the show is over...or at least that's been my experience.

 

[lapage24]

Really? I honestly can say I've never seen that. I've seen handlers bark orders...but not breeders.

Haha...really, truly. It was the breeder. I know because I had actually made initial contact with her about her dogs because they are really gorgeous. After what I saw I stopped talking to her. From the sideline she was yelling at her handlers (aka the dog's owners), "SHOW HIM! SHOW HIM!" in this manner -> :cussing2: I almost wanted to ask her what she thought they were doing?

"SHOW HIM!" isn't really helpful when they're in the ring showing the dog. More specific instruction would have been fine, like "fix this" or "fix that" or "make sure he's doing this", but "SHOW HIM!" and stepping on everyone watching outside the ring doesn't really help anyone. "SHOW HIM!" isn't encouragement or mentoring. So while these poor people are in the ring with their dogs, their breeder is standing on the sidelines clearly disgusted with them. I would never want to show again if I had that experience. I don't want a breeder/mentor like that.

 

[KatieB]

I have barked orders at my husband like "Bait, Towel, Spray Bottle, Comb" since he's usually holding the grooming bag. I get extremely nervous when I show Mojo and am usually not very talkative. I've considered hiring a handler just so I can relax a bit because my stomach is in knots for a few hours before show time until we go in the ring. Once we're done I'm a totally different person...relaxed...willing to chat etc. So don't base your opinions solely on what they act like right before or during the show. Now yelling at people and being rude is still not acceptable, but trust me I get so nervous and so focused on what I need to do in the ring that I don't act like I usually do most other times. I hope with my next dog I'm not so nervous...but who knows

 

[lapage24]

I have barked orders at my husband like "Bait, Towel, Spray Bottle, Comb" since he's usually holding the grooming bag. I get extremely nervous when I show Mojo and am usually not very talkative. I've considered hiring a handler just so I can relax a bit because my stomach is in knots for a few hours before show time until we go in the ring. Once we're done I'm a totally different person...relaxed...willing to chat etc. So don't base your opinions solely on what they act like right before or during the show. Now yelling at people and being rude is still not acceptable, but trust me I get so nervous and so focused on what I need to do in the ring that I don't act like I usually do most other times. I hope with my next dog I'm not so nervous...but who knows

No, I totally get your behavior. I've seen that and it's completely understandable. I don't have a problem with that at all. The things you're barking are helpful and serve a purpose. I would be totally willing to help out even you were barking those things at me. However, I've yet to figure out what purpose it serves to bark "SHOW HIM!" "SHOW HIM!":cussing2:. I would totally break down and cry in that situation. There's no love in that.

 

[Angela]

I'm a bit curious Lauren, why do you want to do conformation with your next Newf? I can see the obedience, working titles, but just interested in why conformation?

 

[lapage24]

I'm a bit curious Lauren, why do you want to do conformation with your next Newf? I can see the obedience, working titles, but just interested in why conformation?

Honestly, it would be another way to spend time with my dog and show him off. I don't have an interest in breeding or anything, if that's what you're thinking. (Of course if he really turned out to be great and his breeder wanted to breed him that would be fine.)

I love my dogs to death and being able to show everyone how wonderful they are is really appealing to me (I gloat about Hera all the time and show her off every chance I get). I would love to have a Versatile Newf. I guess the best way to say it is just that while some people collect cars and fix them up, I would love to get a newf puppy and turn him into a shining star...just for the fun of it really...because I love newfs.

 

[R Taft]

Your chances of getting a puppy on a full registration from a reputable without a co-ownership are slim. Most breeders are very protective of their dogs who will/could remain intact in order that they maintain control over any breedings. My advice is to be open and who you are and not worry about alienating anyone. If you click, then you know that's happened on an honest and forthright basis such that the chance of it continuing is improved.

I co-own Katy as the Breeder might possibly want to use her in the future. but we have an agreement on paper that she never has to leave us and everything will happen from here. I have a very long-standing relationship with my Breeder and I feel very comfortable about this.

 

[Ginny]

My point about her chances being slim for full ownership was directed to Lauren, who has no long standing relationship with a breeder. Of course, those who do, are viewed differently.

 

[Snowden]

I would continue to go to show and observe what goes on. Stay clear of the breeders that make you uncomfortable and talk to the ones that seem less stressed and are there for fun (you can sometime see this when they are grooming before the show). My best advice would be to ask for references from any breeders you are looking at. Also ask for a copy of their Co Owner contract. A co ownership should be about trust between you and the breeder. You want a breeder that works with you not barks orders at you. Trust me I have been there and done that. I have even returned a pup because of issues with the breeder (not the pup). It's not fun and it is heart breaking.

Good Luck!

 

[dannyra]

Haha...really, truly. It was the breeder. I know because I had actually made initial contact with her about her dogs because they are really gorgeous. After what I saw I stopped talking to her. From the sideline she was yelling at her handlers (aka the dog's owners), "SHOW HIM! SHOW HIM!" in this manner -> :cussing2: I almost wanted to ask her what she thought they were doing?

"SHOW HIM!" isn't really helpful when they're in the ring showing the dog. More specific instruction would have been fine, like "fix this" or "fix that" or "make sure he's doing this", but "SHOW HIM!" and stepping on everyone watching outside the ring doesn't really help anyone. "SHOW HIM!" isn't encouragement or mentoring. So while these poor people are in the ring with their dogs, their breeder is standing on the sidelines clearly disgusted with them. I would never want to show again if I had that experience. I don't want a breeder/mentor like that.

I've only ever been to one show, but it's possible she had several dogs from her lines in the ring at the same time and may have been having certain handlers do a better job to earn points for the dog that may have been closest to a title.

 

[lapage24]

I've only ever been to one show, but it's possible she had several dogs from her lines in the ring at the same time and may have been having certain handlers do a better job to earn points for the dog that may have been closest to a title.

She definitely had multiple dogs from her lines in the ring, but that doesn't make "SHOW HIM!" any better. Coaching is fine, but coaching involves using specific verbs like "Fix X" or "Move Y". She was using "SHOW HIM!" to mean "do better". Well if you're not doing a good job it's probably not on purpose, and unless someone tells you specifically what you're doing wrong, you're not going to have an idea what needs to be changed or fixed.

Humans use language to convey their own mental picture so that others can understand their view point. Unless you use language properly, it's not worth very much. In her case her words were only conveying disgust and were of no help to the handlers. "SHOW HIM!" didn't give them any indication of what to improve upon. They just knew that the breeder was pissed.

I have to add on top of that...dogs know when their people are stressed and upset and to stress your handlers out like that when they're trying to show their dogs and be confidence and positive has to be such a bad idea.

 

[dannyra]

Well if you're not doing a good job it's probably not on purpose

Actually the one show we went to and talked to a breeder who only needed a couple points for one dog, that is exactly what was being done with her other dog. Purposely doing a poor job so the other dog looked better.

I'm just saying maybe she was indicating which dog she wanted to do well and maybe indicating to the others to back off a bit.

Just offering a possible alternative to what happened.

 

[lapage24]

Actually the one show we went to and talked to a breeder who only needed a couple points for one dog, that is exactly what was being done with her other dog. Purposely doing a poor job so the other dog looked better.

I'm just saying maybe she was indicating which dog she wanted to do well and maybe indicating to the others to back off a bit.

Just offering a possible alternative to what happened.

I can see what you're saying and like your alternative and would like to believe it, but the sound of disgust in her voice and her body language count for something too. (Also, it seems like she's at every show I go to, so I've seen this on multiple occasions.)

Also, if she wanted one dog shown less and another shown more I'm sure she would have given that information to the handlers prior to putting them all in the ring together.

 

[ardeagold]

OK..you're talking about one person here. Not multiple people acting this way.

I'll just suggest the obvious. Don't choose that breeder!

 

[lapage24]

OK..you're talking about one person here. Not multiple people acting this way.

I'll just suggest the obvious. Don't choose that breeder!

Yeah I've ruled several out after watching shows, but have found others that are potentials.

I was merely talking about her to explain the experience, because she is the reason I was initially apprehensive about co-ownership. She was one of the first people I spoke with because she was supposed to be a reputable breeder, so one of my first experiences put a bad taste in mouth...if that makes sense.

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

Obviously that is not the breeder for you so keep looking. I have not seen that behavior either, though. Most breeders stand quietly by the ring and let their handlers do their job.

 

[Alex]

Hi! I just wanted to say I'm in Jacksonville NC and looking for a puppy for all the same things you are, so we'll probably run into each other a bunch! I wish I lived in Charlotte, there's SO much more going on dog-wise than down here in stinky old Jacksonville :/
I've been looking since November and haven't found the right breeder to settle on yet, so I'd pretty much echo everything they've told you. I've actually made friends with a few breeders who are VERY knowledgeable but don't have what I'm looking for and they have been invaluable in helping me with my search. Offering suggestions, telling me about reputations both of the breeder as a person and of the health of their lines, helping me figure out pedigrees and what they mean.
Be prepared to listen to everything you hear, make notes (I think your spreadsheet's a good idea!) and hopefully you'll make some friends who can help.

 

[lapage24]

Maybe the breeder of you Landseer would be a good place to start?

Hera is a rescue so we don't even know who her breeder was. So far I've made one really good contact with a breeder I like (but they don't breed very often) and through the things we're doing with Hera now, I hope to meet more.