7 Month Old Pup Refuses To Listen... Please Help!

[Phury]

Hi All! My Fiance posted the following post on the FB Newfoundland Dog Owners Group we belong to in regards to our puppy.Another member urged him to seek help here as well so he asked me to copy his post here since I became a member while we were still waiting for our furbaby. Any help is much appreciated. Here is his post:

Good Afternoon Everyone, It's been a while since we've posted but we are hoping once again to gain some insight from all of our newfie friends here. I'm hoping this isn't too long winded but I'd like to be thorough. Our boy Naaru has just turned 7 months old and weighs in at 115 pounds and as much as it pains me to say no longer listens. Especially to his Mommy. He will listen to me for small things like sit and down. Come or leave it not so much. At least I can control him. I work long hours though so he is always with my significant other (mommy) and she really does all the work, care and training. He has no respect for her and walks all over her. He refuses to listen to her most of the time which now even includes our obedience classes. Most of the time he wont even look at her or make eye contact. She constantly does offered attention work with him as well as working "watch me" when they do their training sessions. She works with him 4-5 times a day in short 15-20 minute sessions as well as being consistant in his daily reinforcement of his skills and boundries. He climbs all over her, stands on her, sasses her and generally ignores her all day and even mouthes her on the arms and hands at times.He refuses to go in his crate. She has to physically put him there. He never pulled during walks. He is up to 3 walks a day with a back pack to give him a job and now he pulls her constantly. She is 5 feet tall and he is only getting bigger this is not safe and we use Pet Safe Easy Walk harness on him. He has never been without obedience classes. We started with A.K.C star Puppy then beginner obedience into intermediate obedience we thought we were on our way to advanced and then CGC but at this rate he will fail intermediate obedience. He doesn't listen there, he disrupts the class. We came home from Monday nights session and his Mom sat down and cried for an hour because she thinks she is failing him somehow. Our trainer even introduced us to a lady who owned newfies for years and did SAR with them to help us as well. She attends our classes with us and focuses on helping us with Naaru while our trainer has 5 dogs plus Naaru to focus on. Last Tuesday he even knocked over our special needs child out in the yard because he was over excited and not listening. The Newfie lady helping us asked if we could return him to his breeder and get a different puppy. We were floored! We could NEVER give him up! The whole family would be devastated and our child would be crushed and never understand.She has autism, developmental delays and cerebral palsy. Giving him up is not an option but we need to get him to listen. I've gone and made him sound like a monster now but he isn't. He's our boy and we love him and we just need to find a way to help him be the puppy we know he can be. We've tried everything we can think of researched everything we can think of and are just going in circles. He gets plenty of exercise and playtime as well as training. During Mondays class it was suggested we try tethering him to Mom as they don't feel he is bonded to her and is too aloof. We got him at 8 weeks and he is now 7 months. Any insight or guidance, experiences or thoughts to share would be enormously appreciated! Thank you in advance for your help. We can't express how grateful we are to have this group to share with in good times and in bad.

 

[wrknnwf]

Ah yes, 7 months...he's in the bratty teenager stage. Been there many times.

It will probably pass, but not if you give up working with him. As long as he isn't acting aggressively and is just being a goofy, space cadet, you are doing everything that I would suggest.

Have some faith in yourselves, make sure you are being consistent with him, and that everyone who comes in contact with him knows the rules, and is on the same page. And above all, be patient with him and yourselves. Children and puppies take a while before they're fully baked. Fortunately, it takes less time with a dog than a kid.

Look up "extinction bursts" if you aren't familiar with the term. It may explain part of his behavior.

One think you need to look at, though, is how and why he gets to the point where he is climbing on her. etc. Everyone should be much more observant of his behavior. Try to anticipate and head off problems before they occur by giving him something better to do. And, if you can describe incidents, perhaps we can offer more specific solutions.

Personally, I don't think carrying around a backpack is much of a job for a dog. It may tire him somewhat, for about 5 minutes, but he really needs to learn to use his brain, not his brawn. Have you taught him any useful things like retrieving, or done any water work with him? You might consider doing some agility or nose work with him. Does he know any "tricks". Discover what he enjoys doing and then turn it into some sort of useful activity. Build on what he already does well or take a bad behavior and figure out how it might be useful in another way. Check out some interactive games. There are plenty online. Challenge him to think.

Also, review your training techniques. Not every person is a great trainer in the beginning, so maybe you guys needs to work on skills. Anyone can learn, but it's comes more quickly and easily to some than others. And you have to continue to practice those skills (sometimes without the dog around), just like the dog needs to practice. I would ask the training instructor to observe you guys in a private session and offer any suggestions. Maybe your timing is off, or the tone of your voice, or your body language is sending a wrong message or some other simple thing. Training should be fun for all of you, but if the dog is just goofing off every session, you may need to get some opinions on your technique. And if you're only getting frustrated during a session, then stop for the time being. It could just be, too, that he considers your SO his sibling and playmate since she is around much more and probably does have the opportunity to play with him more regularly. Do consider his age though. This is not untypical behavior for a 5 to 7 month old Newf.

BUT, DO NOT GIVE UP! Patience with yourselves and your pup, and consistency. There's a great dog inside somewhere and YOU can bring him out. It's so worth it in the end.

 

[Darwinsnewfie@1855]

Please don't take offense, but I had to laugh while reading your post. You sound just like me when my pup Ella was 7 months old, however, she was not nearly 115lbs. We also have a child with special needs and we could not leave them unsupervised together until this month, our pup turns 1 next week. Ella would jump on our son, take his toys, pull at his clothes. She actually took his pants clean off in the front yard. At 7 months she was pulling on walks, and would refuse to come when called. However, let me tell you how Ella is now. She gently licks my son all day and stays right by his side. She spends most days sleeping on his head and getting as close to him as possible. She has come a long way on the leash and I can get her to sit, stop and lay down with a simple hand gesture. Keep in mind that I am not an excellent or experienced dog trainer. We still struggle with the recall sometimes, but she is a different dog than she was at 7 months. Overall, I honestly think she just matured and we did not accept her bratty behavior. Here are somethings that worked for us, but I bet in a couple of months you will be saying the same thing I am right now.
We increased the amount of exposure she had to other dogs. We scheduled puppy dates with neighbors and friends. We also use clicker training, which I learned about on this site. Ella is highly responsive to click and treat. Last but not least, we introduced her to swimming and she loves fetching balls out of the water. Hope this helps a little, but keep up the good work and give him time to mature. Here is a pic of Ella sleeping on my sons head at the beach after a good swim in the Atlantic.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13517444_1078562655514755_7181710815423876226_o.jpg

 

[Phury]

Thank you both for your advice and replies! We love him too much to give up so failure is not an option. We are really just so relieved that this is something other owners have experienced. We have been told "Normal" Newfs don't behave like this so he must have a bad temperament and can we return him to his breeder for a different pup. It's been heartbreaking. We would never give him up! The first day of tethering went well and I also took his training back to the basics. Whatever I think he knows we are going back and repeating everything. I'm making him work for everything. We really want to let him swim such as in a lake or beach but have been told by the trainers that it isn't safe because he doesn't have a reliable recall. So sadly water exercise other than a swim in our daughters pool a bit is all he gets. we do try to have him retrieve stuff from the water but he hasn't gotten to the point yet where he gives us back whatever he retrieved which he then wants you to chase him down for it We were so focused on teaching him to be obedient that we didn't bother with teaching him the fun tricks. We have been told by the trainers he has poor eye contact and he isn't bonded and very aloof for a newf and that's why he wont listen. So we started the tethering. We've also been told the standing on me and climbing on me when I'm sitting or laying down is dominance. As for the mouthing and jumping on me or mouthing and climbing on me I notice those are in periods of high excitement so we try to keep him from getting too excited. I think everyone forgets how young he truly is because of his size. I've been reading a lot of posts on here in the obedience section and there is a lot of useful information. I also looked up the " extinction burst" I plan to discuss it with his trainer as well. I some days feel like I've been thrown in the middle of the ocean and told to swim or sink. None of our research prepared us for this stage or the biting and sassiness so it's been a learning curve. I laughed over the pulling of the little ones pants in the front yard because he does that to me though not as bad and now his focus is more on our arms and hands. He usually mouths Dad less but checking his ears the other night even he was subjected and now has an arm full of bruises to show for it. He didn't let him win though and he got his ears checked in the end. I almost forgot, he has tons of interactive puzzles and toys but he solves them all and then won't play with them anymore. I've tried changing the rewards in them and he's just no longer interested. The only thing he likes to do is run around with his jolly ball horse ball in his mouth. He likes to carry hings with handles lol. We tried to look at the picture of Ella but it says the link has expired. I know this is a bit all over and scattered I tried to address both replies. Trying to type quickly due to 115 pounds of crazy pup tied to my waist

 

[wrknnwf]

I'm beginning to wonder a bit about your training instructors. I don't feel they have a good understanding of developmental stages in a dog, nor do they know much about this breed. And they should have more than one answer to any problem and be willing to switch up as necessary to help you achieve your goals. They should also be willing to say "I don't know, but I'll help you find another way to do this or that". I'm not saying they are bad instructors, because this is just based on what little you've told us, but if they are not multi-versed, you may, at some point want to consult someone else. Be sure that anyone working with you or your dog uses positive reinforcement techniques. Newfs respond very poorly to harsh methods. A Newf can shut down in a heartbeat with the wrong training and they bore easily (because they are really smarter than us anyway, grin).

Climbing on you is not necessarily any sign of dominance. Maybe he just wants to play and that's the way he initiates it. I'd stay clear of labeling anything dominance behavior. It usually isn't. And labeling things can just lead people to believe that there is a personality flaw or some imagined motivation. Just don't do it. Work with what you've got and don't worry about what it appears to be. And learn to redirect his naughty behavior.

Poor eye contact? Maintaining eye contact, is uncomfortable for for a dog, although you certainly want to achieve it to some extent. In the beginning, you want to maintain the eye contact for a just a few seconds before you treat, and then work up to more time. If he looks away, you probably weren't fast enough with the reward or you tried to hold his gaze for too long at this stage. Start from scratch. Hold his gaze for one second and treat quickly with abundant praise. Do that two or three times in one session, only. Don't bore him with it (or any other repetitive task). Next day try two seconds, etc. Don't expect him to gaze at you for long periods of time at this stage. The eye contact exercise is not a staring contest, it's a means of getting his attention when you need it. And it is the very foundation on which all other training is based. It is should be followed with praise and most usually with another command or behavior. "Look at me now, because I need your attention, so we can do this next..." as in "Bilbo, watch, good! Bilbo heel". Also people tend to abandon the attention exercise at some point, not realizing that it needs to be continually practiced just as any other exercise.

Also look up variable reinforcement. It's believed that variable reinforcement helps cement a behavior more quickly. When you start training a brand new behavior you treat every time, but quickly start to fade the treats by only giving them randomly, on a variable schedule.

Two other useful terms to research are luring and shaping. Get a feel for when you should use one or the other. Luring is most often used when you start teaching a new behavior. Shaping is often employed with clicker training and allows the dog to figure out a behavior on his own without you manipulating, luring, or commanding it initially. Clickers are very helpful for many things, but don't need to be incorporated into training all exercises. Typically, you would use luring when you start to teach something like "sit". Shaping comes in handy for teaching things like going to a specific spot (his bed or a mat). Learn how to do them and then figure out how you can employ these in your training. You probably have already used the luring technique, but see if you can also shape some of his behaviors. It may or may not be useful in teaching him not to climb on you.

What treats are you using for training purposes? They should be high value treats that he only gets when training. Nuked hot dog slices, chicken, bacon pieces, cheese, dried liver...something that HE (not you) thinks is totally yummy. Switch up treats as much as you need to so he doesn't get bored.

Swimming...get a 50 to 100 foot floating rope and snap it to his collar if you're worried about him swimming off or not coming when you call. No brainer. I'd be willing to be that if you go in the water with him, he will want to stay with you, but without some training, may tend to climb on you. That is very normal behavior for young water dogs, so you should have someone with more experience to assist in getting him started off right.

As for interactive games, I meant those that you can participate in with your dog; not the toys you buy that make him open a trap door or something. Like find it games, or shell games, or hide and seek. And do teach lots of tricks. As many as you can think of. It's weird, but most everyone can teach a dog a trick much more easily than teach him an obedience exercise. There is no pressure, when you're teaching tricks, for anyone to be perfect. and they certainly seem to be more fun. And if he doesn't learn a particular trick, so what. You just try teaching another. Sprinkle his training sessions with various tricks so he always feels he's having fun and doing something that makes you happy.

Oddly, tricks are usually a good foundation for more complex tasks, like those in assistance or service work. And they help you understand his strengths and natural abilities. Not every dog does everything well. But every dog does excel at something. Find your dogs talents. Tricks are also great for ending a training session. That is...tricks he likes and does well. I used to have one of my dogs do a "high five". Another got to give me a hug. These were wonderful, brief bonding moments in which we got to congratulate or give support to the other. It's a nice way to end. Like saying "I love you" before you go to bed.

One point I'd like to make is that people and dogs have to learn how to learn. It isn't automatic. So teaching fun stuff helps them grasp the learning concept and makes them want to learn more.

Teach complex or difficult behaviors in small steps. Don't expect him to achieve perfection right away. Break down complex or difficult behaviors in to increments and then chain them altogether into one behavior. Also, treat and praise for approximately "getting it" and then up the bar within a few tries so that he works his way towards doing it right. Always reward his best attempt, even if it wasn't perfect, but next time expect a little better performance before you reward. If he stalls out, go back a notch or to the beginning if you have to. You did say you are starting over and there's no shame in that. Dogs often do really well for a while and then for no apparent reason, regress. That's a good time to start from scratch. And just know that it will come back faster to him the next time around.

Also try praising "offered" behavior. If you ask him to do something and he doesn't quite understand, but does another acceptable behavior (offers it), it means he is thinking and trying to figure out exactly what you want. Praise that lightly, but then ask him again to do what you want. When he gets it right, go ballistic-ally happy, so he sees the difference. YES! YES! YES! YOU ARE THE MOST INCREDIBLE DOG EVER! Keep that up for at least 5 seconds if not 10. Sing, dance, jump up and down. Party! Then repeat the exercise one more time. If you are not appropriately ecstatic, then why should he care about trying, so make a fool of yourself. Remember that training should not be a military drill, but rather a beautiful pas de deux in which each partner supports and enhances the other through communication. It should be fun. And most experienced obedience trainers secretly prefer working with a "wild child" dog than with a bored and disenchanted one. It's that enthusiasm that makes a stellar obedience dog in the end. It's more difficult working with a wet, floor mop than the Energizer Bunny.You just have to channel it. So I hope you see what a great opportunity you have at this stage.

I think another really good bet is to contact the Regional Newf Club nearest you, and ask for help in evaluating his personality for his developmental stage, and to help with suggestions for his training. Also there are some members on here from Ohio, so if you are comfortable posting your city, maybe someone will respond who is close to you and offer to meet with you and your pup.

Geez, I could go on and on (and usually do), but I hope this is helpful info. He's still a baby, well, teenager, and he will improve with your loving guidance. And I think most of us here would agree that our Newfs have actually taught us way more than we ever taught them.

 

[Darwinsnewfie@1855]

It is great to hear how committed you are. These puppy stages can be trying. I updated my pic of Ella to public, I always forget to do that lol. I also saw the pics of Naaru and he is such a stunning boy, and huge!

 

[Phury]

Oh my, how adorable! Ella is a beauty! Thank you! He seems to grow like a weed. We were even worried he was growing to quickly because he seems so much heavier than other pups his age but the vet says he is beautiful and his weight is healthy. He felt his ribs and hips no problems. Our only concern was he told us to put him back on his puppy food. We had switched him to all life stages when we brought him home from his breeder. Our vet would like him to stay on the puppy food for now and said we could reavaluate after he is a year.

 

[Phury]

WRKNNWF, You are amazing and thank you so much for all the awesome guidance, wisdom and a fresh perspective on things. There are so many great things in this post. I'm so glad that the person on facebook reminded me of this place and the people here.

I think my actual trainer and you might have been on the same page at some point. She was the one who set me up with the trainer from pennsylvania who has been coming to Naaru's classes to help me and be sort of a mentor to me. It's been great having someone close to help out who owned Newfs (her's passed and she no longer does Newfs) but lately I've been more upset than anything because she thinks he's not right. In my heart of hearts I didn't and don't feel there is anything wrong with my boys temperament. We live in Youngstown, Ohio and so far haven't met any other Newf people aside from the woman our trainer has coming in from PA to help us. Even the 2 Vets we've used said they rarely see Newfs in their practices. Ditto with groomers. It would be great to meet some other people especially for him. He so loves other dogs and rarely gets a chance to play with other dogs. Our classes focus on harder things now so there is no more playtime after. Sadly we don't have friends, family or neighbors with size appropriate dogs. I am currently going about trying to make contact with our Newf club to see about getting him evaluated like you mentioned and hopefully we can meet some new friends either here or through there.

His trainer mentioned showing me shaping work for him before but had a death recently and may have slipped her mind. I will research the things you left me with as well as share with her to see how we might make things better for Naaru and ourselves as well.

I loved your idea about the floating line. I had mentioned something similar to the newf woman helping us and but had had the idea of using his 50 foot cotton training lead and she said it would tangle in the water and pull him under. I didn't think to look for a floating line and it was never mentioned. I was just told not to let him swim until he is older and learns a reliable recall. I will have to look into having someone with experience help us introduce him to the water. He truly loves water. He has never met a drop he didn't like whether it be his water dish, a pool, a bucket, the hose, rain or the kitchen sink. We have to keep him from the bathroom when anyone is showering or bathing because he will climb right in with them. If I empty bath water, I have to keep him tied to me with a leash or he is going in and laying down lol.

You've made so many excellent points and I'm so happy to have been able to get your insight. I actually feel bad for Naaru now. I play with him all the time but we've been so single minded focus on trying to make him listen and trying to get him to learn all these skills that we haven't stopped to teach him fun things and just enjoy our pup. Every day has been nothing but one long boring routine for him. We will start working with your suggestions and I will speak with my trainer and I will definitely let you know how he is coming a long! Thank you again so much for your help!

 

[wrknnwf]

Happy to help. I'm sure others will chime in. The one thing I want to stress is that you want to make your pup think you are like that bearded guy in the beer commercial...the most interesting person in the world. When you are working with him, burst into song, or suddenly start dancing on occasion. Be unpredictably goofy and animated at times and you'll have much better luck with his attention, because he'll want to see what crazy, fun thing you're going to do next. Surprise him!

Happy training and keep us updated.

 

[Kimkc]

I have zero experience with a puppy, but we worked with a trainer recently with our 4 year old Newf, and she said the same thing to me that the person above said. Act crazy, over the top happy when you see behavior you like. She said you always want to keep them guessing! I have been doing that with ours and it seems to be working!

 

[victoria1140]

I have 2 girls both from the same litter my wildchilds as l call them.
Or the baby hellraisers.

At 7 months old you can let your boy swim just get a long horse lead if you are worried about recall and then boy you will find a very tired boy.and if they are tired they will listen as that huge burst of energy is dissipated.think of it as a kid in a sweet shop,they want everything,dont listen and rampage around if they dont know better.

Newfs take longer to mature,even mine at 2 arent as steady as my gsd's but they are getting there.l see the differences and how much easier they settle.

Consistent training and if something isnt working then end the training on something positive and next time try something else.behave like a real idiot at times.l got some funny looks when l act like an aeroplane for recall and follow training and l keep giving them treats as l play fly along.l have flapped ky arms like a bird and initiated play times but it gets them to listen.

I would definetly start swimming though be prepared for the drying and hair loss as boy they loose a lot of hair the first few times.

 

[Phury]

Thank you Victoria! We call ours similar things lol. We are on the hunt for some floating line as per your and another suggestion. We do let him in the smallish 3 and a half foot deep pool we have for our daughters water therapy though getting him in and out without injuring his joints is not easy. At 7 months he already weighs 115 pounds and is a pretty big pup. We want to take him to the lake though and this will make that possible. We always laugh because he barks at certain strangers when he first sees them even though we socialized him from the time we got him and still do. He is so big that he scares the daylights out of people who just don't know he is only a pup.

After reading your post the other night, I was out in the yard and he wouldn't listen and we normally leave a 6 ft lead attached to him that we can grab or step on but this night we didn't so I was chasing him all over the yard when finally I just stopped and started acting like an airplane lol. My SO looked at me like I lost my mind but Naaru came trotting over with a big grin like it was the greatest thing he had ever seen and now when he doesn't listen you'll find myself, Dad and grandma who lives just behind us being an airplane, a choo choo, race car, and even a bird if it means he'll stop and look. I wonder what they'll think at my obedience class tonight lol

 

[wrknnwf]

Great! You can see how responsive he is when you act more fun and interesting.

Here's another good tip. Never chase a dog. Instead call his name or make some noise (to get him to look at you) and quickly "fall" down like you're injured. You can even say "Help me, help me". You will be surprised at how effective that is to get a dog, even a strange dog, to come to you. But don't lunge at him when he gets to you. Pet him all over his face, head and collar and then either gently take his collar or release him again. Release him to go play again at least as many times as you gently take his collar. If you grab his collar and then march him inside, he will avoid coming to you in the future or learn to dodge you when you reach out. If you don't release him to go play again at times, he will learn that coming to you means the end of fun. Again, keep him guessing. Also you can try running the other way, but I've caught more dogs by falling down than running and it's a whole lot less stressful and physically demanding.

NEVER EVER SCOLD him for not coming. And always praise the holey hell out of him for coming, even if it takes you 45 minutes to get him to come. No one, not dog nor human, willingly walks up to a person they know is going to punish them or yell at them. So anytime he comes he is wonderful, even if you would like to murder him at the time.

 

[Phury]

Thank you Wrknnwf! I'm glad you have told me this as we spend countless time chasing him around especially when he has something he shouldn't which seems like all the time We try not to grab his collar too much as the trainer we use says he has collar handling sensitivity because whenever you grab his collar he lays down and rolls over and tries to mouth who ever's hands are attached to his collar. Not a pleasant time. This gives me another way to engage him. The useful things I learn here are amazing. I'm sure you guys have seen everything!
We have always made sure not to scold him when he comes then again he rarely ever comes though lol.

I have been emailing with a NCA ambassador this morning about finding out who/ and how to make contact within my local club about the evaluation and training tips you mentioned in your previous post. I'm waiting to hear back from her. You've eased my heart a lot with your reassurance that he is a normal puppy though. Thank you!
Maria

 

[Phury]

Hello all, we had obedience class last night so I wanted to update a little bit as well as realizing I left out a puzzling bit of information. Naaru initially was doing well until all the pups were there and then became increasingly difficult to gain his attention and focus particularly with one dog on our left side. Even straining with all of his weight against his no pull harness to reach the dog and check her out. During most of the class he was more focused on this particular dog than anything. the pup on our right side is one thats been in each set of classes with us since day 1 with Star puppy and while he is usually interested in trying to play with her we don't have to struggle to keep him away like we did with this dog. This is the first set of classes they have attended with us and also the first time in 3 weeks we have sat by them so that may have something to do with his interest. When we did have his focus he did much better than last week. He did the things we asked and did them well. His trainer was pleased. We went outside for 10 minutes (due to the heat)to do some loose leash walking which he also did well with even with a very noisy train passing by. He was the only pup that kept walking and didn't become agitated. Afterwards we returned indoors and were asked to do some sit/stay and down/stay for the last few minutes of class. At this point Naaru began biting at his leash and my hands. Not aggressively or hard enough to breaks skin but uncomfortably so and the more we tried to stop him the more agitated it seemed he got and actually started growling a bit. Our trainer was going to get some bitter apple as we left ours home since we've never needed it at school but by the time she finished assessing the other dogs and owners sit/stays my significant other had taken him and Naaru had stopped and was fine again. He also usually never sleeps in the car on the way home. He likes to ride with his head between us and look around. Last night he flopped down as much as his seat belt would allow and laid with his head between our arms and passed out. When we got home I took him potty as usual and then into the house while I made his supper. I turned my head and caught him standing with his front paws in the cat litter box and peeing on the floor next to it. He is mostly house trained and only has a rare incident in the house. If he does it's in the night and always next to the cat box for some reason. We had just come from outside a few minutes before though and I was in the room with him making his food. I have to say the sight of a 115 pound puppy standing in the litter box peeing is shocking. The rest of the night and today has passed without incident. He's been pretty good today so far and has listened without much fuss. The peeing however reminded me that he sometimes tinkles a small amount when my significant other comes home from work and he is so excited and happy to see him that we assumed it was just an excitement thing. Last week when we approached our newf mentor who attended our class upon arriving he wasn't as excited but still was shaking his butt and wagging his tail and leaning against her while she petted him and said hello and he tinkled a little bit and she asked him " why are you submissive peeing?" and I said that he does that to his Dad when he comes home from work sometimes because he is so happy and excited and she said it's not excitement peeing it's submissive peeing. He never does it with me or anyone else and he doesn't do it all the time but now it has me wondering at where that fits in if at all with his other behavior and if it's normal. She didn't say anything else on the subject but just looked at him with that look she gives him like she is appraising something that isn't quite right. Being that I left that part out in my earlier post I thought I'd add it in here in case it's important. We spoke with a Newf Ambassador from NCA yesterday and she said he sounds like a normal pup but that he needs to learn I'm the boss and to mind me. No word yet on making contact with the local club but still trying!