Question for Bridget and DennisL

HPond

Inactive Member
I have read all the food and diet topics and I just have some specific questions for you. I know that what I feed puppy will be a personal choice, etc. but with that said, I would really love your opinions.

Bridget, since Tuggs is solely on Marg/Levy diet, I was wondering...when you feed fresh fruit and vegies (broccoli and carrots in particular) do you grate them in a food processor or feed them in little sticks?

I am wondering because I have the raw food book "Reigning Cats and Dogs" by Pat McKay, and she recommends grating all fruits and vegies for easier digestion. (and adding them in with raw meat.) But I don't have Levy's book, and since you know about her diet....does she recommend grating vegies too?

DennisL, I read that you fed Howard, California Natural Lamb and Rice...I saw on the Natura site that it's for sensitive allergic dogs. Do you think it would be ok to feed right off the bat to a non-allergic puppy or should I only feed this if there's an allergy?



[This message has been edited by HPond (edited 02-09-2002).]
 

DennisL

Inactive Member
As I mentioned in a previous post, it turned out that Howard was allergic to corn. After a little research, I learned of a fairly recent Cornell study which demonstrated that over 30% of the dog population is allergic to corn, corn meal, and corn by-products (sorry, I don’t have the reference immediately on hand). Howard was miserable ....horrible dry skin, itching, and hair loss ...and we only seemed to make it worse with our treatments ....medications, supplements, sprays, lotions …and nothing worked! Once our vet suggested the dietary change, there was a complete turn around within about 2 weeks. I've got to believe he is the happiest dog in the world now ...beautiful long haircoat ...and as slick as a mole


In addition to corn, many other ingredients often found in dog kibble are known to aggravating. What comes to mind is beef and beef by-products, corn and fish oils, fish, brewer’s yeast, and dairy products. I guess my opinion is why set your dog or puppy up for a fall? Why feed these items if there is a known risk. ...and let’s be honest, with most major brands of dog food, we can’t even really be sure what is in the bag and where it came from. It amazes me that some lists of ingredients read like a multiple choice question ...for example suggesting several sources or even “variations” of a particular ingredient. Sheesh, even the manufacturers don’t know what is in their products. Really builds my confidence


There really are so many different approaches to dog nutrition and diet (and you will find a lot of great opinions and approaches within this site!)...not unlike that of humans .....and maybe that explains my approach. My wife and I are very health conscious (you know ..health and natural food nuts) ...but we are because we take our health fairly seriously (we used to be competitive body-builders). But then I have a brother who swears you can live on McDonald’s, Burger King, donuts, and chips...he feels great ...so do I... so go figure!!!
So, we approach our dogs nutrition the same way we approach ours... natural whole nutritious foods ...elimination of known allergins and additives (we all know the’re “bad” for us) ..and good supportive supplementation (that’s another story!!).

So what do we feed Wesley our 7 month old (drop dead gorgeous Newfie !!!) Innova canine manitenance (also made by Naturapet). Innova does contain dairy products ....but Wesley just loves this stuff (I swear, I’m tempted to try it to see what the fuss is all about!!!!!) We include fresh veggies with his food like carrots, yellow squash, broccholi, radish, potatoes, ....and give fruits like bananas, apples (he eats an apple a day (sounds crazy but we core and quarter them and then freeze them) ....peaches, and pears (small pieces) as treats. He also gets a raw chicken neck cut into small pieces once a day. Finally we supplement with Mapleton Canine Metabolizer (great stuff). ...also, please keep in mind, there is so much veterinary evidence to strongly suggest that we not feed our babies the so called “giant breed” or even “puppy” foods for that matter.

Whew !!!!!that soapbox was a little high ………..
Love those Newfies ……


[This message has been edited by DennisL (edited 02-09-2002).]
 

HPond

Inactive Member
THANK YOU!!
BTW there seems to be a party going on in the food and diet section tonight.
I like the Calif. Nat. and Wellness so far. I've been doing alot of researching and my brain is a little fuzzy right now. I suppose it will be trial and error. If puppy doesn't take to one food, I'll have back ups. But I'd like to stay as close as possible to natural ingredients.

Thanks for the input, really appreciate it!


p.s. Canidae kibble looks VERY good!!



[This message has been edited by HPond (edited 02-10-2002).]
 

Shifty

New member
Just thought I'djump in since I noticed several of your posts mentioned Calif. Natural.

We switched our boy over to CA Nat. shortly after we got him home a few weeks ago. He had a dry skin problem down his back even though his coat appeared healthy. I switched his diet over from a "grocery" brand he had been on to CA Nat and in only two weeks it has made a substantial difference in his appearance.

Just my two cents but hope it helps.

------------------
90% Newf, 10% Who Cares.
 
Absolutly all vegies raw , i only grated tuggs carrots when he was alot younger puppy,now that he is 10 months old i started giving them to him without grating or shreding them , he really enjoys chewing them up. And the choice you made with with kibble is great that is what i have my yellow lab on .I have trouble keeping tuggs out of it . with the super5 mix by Neura i also give this to my lab ground chuck smashed into ice cube trays . then you can just pop one out once aday with one of your kibble feedings. you can also do liver the same way, remember to always give the meat raw never cooked . if u can get bil-jac in your area , they have the frozen chicken, its great.
Bridget
--------------------
Until We Newf Again
 

sarnewfie

New member
Jumping in if u dont mind.
please keep in mind, turkey and lamb based diets are low in taurine a much needed amino acid.
 

HPond

Inactive Member
I don't mind anyone jumping in, I love all the input!! I just had specific questions for B + D, but always appreciate all opinions!! I couldn't edit the subject to include "Anyone?!"
I've read a little about taurine in the Pat Mckay book...I'm thinking about the Canidae brand kibble. They have 4 sources of protein, omega 3 and 6, lineolic acid...no added glucom. or chon....now just what good omega 3/6 and lineolic is, I'll have to look up again. But I remember those being good nutrients. I have done so much reading yesterday, I have kibble coming out my ears!!!
 
The Wellness super 5 mix by nuera that i feed Hobbes is hte Human grade Chicken one with white fish . it also has blueberries sweet potatoes, peas carots,garlic and apples and alot of natural ingredients that would take to long to mention. Keep in mind this is a fairly new kibble. but so far i am VERY pleased with it . Also has a protien of 22% and 12 % fat which isnt bad.
Bridget
--------------------
Until We Newf Again
 

DennisL

Inactive Member
Sarnewfie ..I'm really pleased you brought up the concern about taurine deficiency. Taurine is a naturally occurring amino acid or a non-essential amino by definition ... because the body can synthesize it from the "sulfur" amino acids methionine and cysteine. In sports nutrition we think of it as being "conditionally" essential because we make the distinction between minimal and optimal levels of certain substances. Taurine's importance is highlighted by the fact that it's the second most abundant amino acid in the muscle amino acid pool after glutamine. But, all kinds of stress (especially exercise) depletes our reserve of taurine and the body may not be able to keep up appropriate production so... in the short run an appropriate taurine level is important because it maintains cell wall integrity and is of interest to body builders and athletes because it induces a volumizing effect on muscle cells (makes them hold water ...leading to larger better defined muscles...increased strength and muscular endurannce. However in the long run, deficency can lead to anxiety, epilepsy, hyperactivity, and poor brain function. So as a result, physically hard working and athletic humans and dogs really should consider supplementation.

Please also consider, the following (from a paper by Dr. Andrea Fascetti and Dr. Robert Backus ... "dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) is one of the most common acquired cardiovascular diseases known to occur in dogs.

In cats, a diet deficient in taurine clearly results in DCM, but in dogs, the need for dietary taurine has not been generally recognized because dogs (just like us) are known to be able to synthesize taurine from the amino acids cysteine and methionine.

Yet, during the past two years, veterinary nutritionists Drs. Andrea Fascetti and Robert Backus documented low plasma taurine concentrations in dogs with clinical signs of DCM. Some animals died....the prognosis is poor for dogs with this disease..while some survived when given supplemental taurine and supportive care.

The cause of taurine deficiency in the canine DCM cases was not readily apparent, yet the common factor was diet history. Some of the dogs had been eating home-made diets, while others were eating similar commercial diets....the diets appeared sufficient in protein and sulfur amino acid content, and had passed testing in accordance with Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) feeding trials for all life stages.

These cases and findings in several pilot studies suggest that diet does affect taurine metabolism in dogs and may play a role in the development of DCM.

Recent evidence also suggests that taurine stores and the development of DCM may be affected not only by diet, but also by a dog's size. There is a prevalence of DCM in families of dogs and specific breeds, many of which are large and giant breeds.

Dr. Backus found evidence in a study of Newfoundland dogs with taurine deficiency to support the idea that taurine metabolism may be influenced by "metabolic" body size, which takes into account that the amount of energy needed by the body is correlated with total body surface area, not just body weight.

Last year Dr. Backus found diet-associated taurine deficiency and cardiac insufficiency in more than half of a group of 21 privately owned Newfoundland dogs, which excreted extraordinary amounts of taurine in their urine. Drs. Backus and Fascetti are now planning a larger project to estimate the prevalence of a possible widespread taurine deficiency in the Newfoundland breed. Non-invasive clinical tests and feeding trials will determine if taurine deficiency in Newfoundlands might result from 1) a reduction in protein digestibility, 2) a diminished capacity to synthesize taurine from sulfur amino acids, or 3) loss of taurine in urine. Also, pedigree analysis may reveal a genetic basis for taurine deficiency."

So this "long winded"
post is a way for me to introduce the idea of supplemention within our dog's diets ...I mentioned previously we supplement our dogs natural diets with Mapleton Canine Metabolizer ......curious what others may think about supplementation within their dog's diets ????

love those newfies .......
 

HPond

Inactive Member
I'd like to look up more about Mapleton Canine Metabolizer. Where can you find it?(although honestly, you lost me about the 3rd sentence
I'll be reading your post again. It sounds very interesting, and anything to improve a Newfies life is worth reading! Also, I'd like to learn more about this taurine...

BTW, Shifty, do you supplement CA Natural with anything like raw meats or vegies or do you feed it alone? I'm trying to decide if I'm going to do a little raw meat with the kibble, but definitely the fruits and vegies sound good. Thanks for your input!

[This message has been edited by HPond (edited 02-11-2002).]
 

sarnewfie

New member
WOWZA!!!!
Wonderful post dennis!
you sound so professional!
i am impressed.
needless to say, i believe very highly and try to tell people that supplimenting is a GOOD thing, becouse the commercial diet has got to cook out some of the GOOD. supplimenting with fresh stuff is wonderful for them, and i see it every day with my guys, you might yell at me, but.....
i buy taurine powder and add it to my guys food twice daily now, for about 4 months i have been doing that.
i buy from http://www.revivalanimal.com
i also add Vit E 400 IU twice daily, they get Vit C escorbate twice daily, they get Bee pollen twice daily (with some breaks) they also get GL and JFlex once each daily.
so yes, i may be called a finatic, but again, the cooking process and preserving process just cant beat the fresh additives to food from ourselves.
Also a note:
i have heard from a few that they females were affected with breeding from low taurine levels, or borderline that they did not carry their litter all the way thru term or they did not take with breeding.
so......after supplimenting with correct dose given from their vet, they concieved, carried thru and delivered healthy happy puppies.
food for thought.
 

HPond

Inactive Member
Would you recommend supplementing when they are puppies? What about the dosage? I think my vet may frown upon supplements...how do your vets feel and should I go ahead and supplement?

ps. I'll be researching supplements and will figure things out.




[This message has been edited by HPond (edited 02-13-2002).]
 

misamala00

Inactive Member
I totaly agree that cooking process will destroy some usefull ingrediants in food, but can the suplements really be called fresh? Aren't they also processed throug? I somehow imagine fresh to be an apple or carrot and not a powder or a pill?

Just my dilema.

(And I have no idea in what kind of food taurine is to be found!)

Mirjam & Misha
 

sarnewfie

New member
i believe the GL and Jflex to be VERY VERY effective, proof in one of our dogs, our rott who is 9 1/2 was limping severly, would not put weight on R right leg, after one week of this JFlex in the AM and GL in the PM he is back to normal. Proof right there how effective it is, it took a week, and he is back to normal, but, on days where there is a storm or bad weather coming in, he will not put weight on that leg, than he also needs the aid of his rimadyl, wich i only give on an as needed basis, i also buy the bee pollen it is very FRESH and i had a guy who raises bees come and inspect it, this is the www.springtimeinc.com product, he said he couldnt believe how fresh it is.
proof is in our dogs, and i see it in my 8 year old newf who has a few injuries under his belt, when normally he should be stiff or sore, he is running around like a 3 year old, proof right there the suppliments work.
PRoof is also in a GSD that is elderly, people at their witts end, debating if they should put this 7 year old down, as he was so stiff and sore, put him on the Fresh Factors tablets found at springtimeinc.com, within 2 weeks he is back to normal and acting like a 3 year old.
 

Shifty

New member
Never saw your question...sorry. We do supplement the CA Nat with fresh fruits and veggies and occasionally meat. I do get worried sometimes of "over" supplementing though, even if it is all natural foods I try to avoid putting the poor guy into a sugar overload with the fruits.
The bizarre one is the broccoli. He'll eat around it till it's the last thing in the bowl, then eat all of the 'stem', then proceed to take the 'heads' of the broccoli one at a time in his mouth flip them up into the air and catch them three or four times each before he eats them!! I don't know how many times I've seen it and I still laugh till I almost cry when he does it.

------------------
90% Newf, 10% Who Cares.
 

HPond

Inactive Member
Thanks Shifty! That's a good point about the sugar overload. And very cute what he does with the broccoli!
 

DennisL

Inactive Member
Hi everyone ...to put one further twist on this topic ...its not just coooking and production that can diminish the nutrients available in a feed......you also might consider bioavailability. This simply means that just because a particular food may contain a certain amout of vitamins, minerals...whatever...doesn't necesssarily mean it is in a form that can be readily accepted by the body...or (for example) that the body has an appropriate amount of a particular enzyme for digestion. I have always felt one area of supplementation overlooked is proenzymes. They can facilitate and assist with the breakdown and digestion of food components ...making nutrient content more readily available.

My parents have breed and shown Springers for over 35 years and this breed often has digestion problems. As fruit treats for their dogs, they always give pineapple (enzyme is bromelin) and papaya (enzyme is papin) to aid with digestion and nutrient absorbtion... and this strategy works great!....also great for those little gaseous moments


Oh, Sarnewfie ...I supplement with taurine powder as well


As far as suppementing puppies ...I really believe a canine metabolic optimizer ...is something worth while to consider ...for me it gives piece of mind .....with a great natural feed, fresh fruits and veggies...and great supportive supplementation ...we're giving our little guys the best we can possibly give ...

[This message has been edited by DennisL (edited 02-13-2002).]
 
Top