Puppy question

[graybird]

Hi, all -- we have been looking for a Newf to add to our family, our first girl having gone to the Bridge in September. We have contacted all the local breeders, as well as the local Rescue; the latter I believe has approved us, though they have no dogs ready at present.
One of the breeders has a pup who is the runt of the litter, had what the vet described as "failure to thrive" when nursing exclusively, though she apparently eats food fine. At 9 weeks, she was still kinda thin when we visited. She has now had her heart check, as well as a blood workup, and all is well on both those fronts. The parents and grandparents have health clearances which are acceptable to me. One thing that concerned me was that she was pretty wet with urine on her hindquarters; I did watch her walk off and pee while we were there, and her motion looked normal and she left a definite puddle, as opposed to dribbling. She is quieter and less aggressive than her siblings.
Are there additional tests that we might do? The breeder talked about possibly doing Xrays. Any advice?

 

[Pipelineozzy]

I'd be very concerned about ectopic ureter on one side with this pup. I have a girl that is ectopic on one side only, she squats and has a normal pee too, but she also dribbles nonstop. It was apparent when she was a pup...her hind was always wet..even in the whelping box...so I kept her here rather than letting her be placed. I would really suggest investigating before taking her if that is the case. The surgery is very very expensive and not always successful for ectopic ureter.

 

[graybird]

Thank you Cindy, that was worrying me as well, though I didn't know it could occur only on one side. Apparently it started at the 7-8 week mark. I'll find out if she's still doing it, I know they all had baths today. Is there a test for ectopic ureter, or is the diagnosis symptom-based?

 

[Pipelineozzy]

Yes, it can be only on one side. Frequently breeders don't realize it because when they are younger, the mommy keeps them so clean you don't notice it. With Tanny, I knew by the time she was about 2 weeks old, but I watch extremely close and I thought she had a bladder infection or something. We treated, but it didn't clear, and by the time she was about 6 weeks I knew for sure that she was...but since she also fills her bladder from the other side...she still squats and has normal pee times too. They can test for it with a series of xrays etc. ..they give a drug and then take xrays to try to "see" what is going on. there may also be other tests that the clinic I work in does not have the technology to do. But one thing is for sure...you need to be extremely cautious here. I love my Tanny with my whole being, but she is a management problem and if I had to do it all over again, I am not sure that I would proceed with her. If I didn't have a "kennel room" and a very high tolerance, she would be too difficult to manage. She has to be bathed daily, and she still dribbles. PPA is helpful for her to some extent..but not curative. She's not a good candidate for surgery, as there are other defects involved in there, and they could not give me a very hopeful prognosis, so we just 'manage" her. Some dogs have had the surgery with moderate degrees of success, others have no real success at all. I am actually considering having the kidney on that side removed to see if that would work....but honestly, I would not take it on if I was you. Tanny was BORN here..she is MINE...my responsibility...but not one that I would take on voluntarily if she had not been "mine" from day one.

 

[graybird]

:uhoh2: Thank you so much. I will tread carefully and make sure this issue is thoroughly addressed before I proceed further. One thing I'm not sure of -- in the reading I've done on ectopic ureters (which was brief), mention was made of doing an ultrasound to check position/size of the kidneys, then a dye/x-ray. In this situation, where I've visited the pup but not made a commitment to buy (we haven't even discussed price), and the breeder has some concerns for her health as well, is it fair for me to ask the breeder to do and pay for these further tests? My guess is yes, but I'd like to have some confidence in my position.

 

[Angela]

This is just MY opinion.
I would not intentionally take a puppy with ectopic ureter. Cindy has given a good detailed description of what it all entails.
Many years ago I got a puppy who dribbled urine on and off all his life. Put him on PPA which sometimes helped, sometimes didn't.
It was difficult to take him places as there was no quarantee that he would stay "dry".
I didn't know why he did this, but when he was 7 yrs old he got cirrhosis of the liver and required an ultrasound at which time it was discovered he also had an ectopic ureter.
He died 6 mths later of liver disease.
Is there any particular reason you really want to take on this "for life" responsibility?

 

[Pipelineozzy]

Yes, absolutely. The breeder has to make sure she is fit to go to a new home, that's not your responsibility. and yes, they give a drug that makes the urine visible on xray and then take a series of xrays, and also check for normal kidneys etc. But..ectopic ureter dogs often have other defects in the pelvis, so the surgery is quite extensive. I would seriously consider looking elsewhere. As I said, I love my Tanny girl (her registered name is Pipeline's Christie Sprinkley...for a reason LOL!) But I keep her back end shaved right down, and she gets put in the tub and gets her back end washed all the time. she SILL smells like urine. It's not a position I would volunteer for if I was you. Some days, when she wags her tail, she sprays urine all over the place - so yes, it's something you REALLY need to be committed to doing. The PPA is the same for Tanny, some days she's really good, other days it isn't. I LOVE summer because she swims everyday and keeps clean because of that.

 

[Angela]

Another thing to think about is if you are planning on getting Pet Insurance this may well NOT be covered as it is a pre-existing disease, so any urinary tract problems would not be covered.

 

[graybird]

No, I would definitely *not* be willing to take on a puppy with this condition -- was just trying to find out more about what is involved with it, and how far to investigate it if it's looking like a possibility. The breeder is certainly prepared to keep her if she has health issues, which is the right thing to do. Thanks for the info!

 

[sara722003]

You're getting excellent advice on this. I brought a submissive peeing gal home from the Humane Society that no one would take. She was just about 6 months old ( a mutt of some kind), but I knew I could work this out with her. My berner had recently died and I knew I would be replacing all the carpets and furniture in my house, so I just figured who better than me to come into this pathetic gal's life. But what you are describing isn't anything that can be trained out.

My gal has been with us for a year now. We got it under control within the first six months, and we rarely have an accident these days.

I wish you all the best. The breeder in CA who is talking about keeping her own girl has a heart of solid gold. This breeder is WONDERFUL. Makes me think it would be worth a trip that far north if I ever want to add another Newf to my family....!!