Odd Coat On Black Puppy

[cedarvalleynewfoundlands]

Hi All
I have a black puppy out of a dominant black male X black/Landseer recessive bitch.
He is normal in every way, very nice, very nice thick full coat. The problem is that he has just recently developed a patch of fur on his sides and on his pants area that is whitish gray and wiry. It is not the entire coat in those areas, rather it is random hairs within the area, and a lot of the tips of the hairs in those areas. His back is normal, solid black. He didnt have this type of coat as a young puppy, but rather it seems to have come in within the last 2 weeks or so. He was born New Years Day, so is about 2 1/2 months old. I have seen something similar to this in browns, but have never noticed it in a black. Anyone have any idea what it is, and whether it will go away as he gets older and loses his puppy coat?
Any info would be greatly appreciated. He doesnt have any gray or brown in the background, only Landseer and black.
Thanks

 

[toblerone]

Like this?

 

[nowhavethreebears]

There is a condition called, I think, follicular dysplasia which occurs in some black dogs, but I don't really know much about it.
I think that it is sometimes accompanied by lighter than normal eye color. Are the puppies' eyes a normal dark brown?

 

[Pipelineozzy]

It sounds like white undercoat syndrome at that age. Look close to his skin, and see if the hair in that area is coming in black again. If it's white undercoat syndrome, he wil outgrow it, but will look funny until his coat changes to adult coat. I've seen it several times, but never really been able to figure out why some get it and some don't. I usually see it at about 9 weeks or in that age area, and in some, it's very slight, but some get it much worse.

 

[cedarvalleynewfoundlands]

It is similar to the pics posted by Kim, but it seems a bit more subtle than that. Its just stray hairs within the coat, but they are very wiry. Where its an entire hair, they are almost like a human gray hair that is all wiry and curly. There is also a lot of silver tipped black hairs. I will try again in the morning to get some pics of it. I tried today, but the camera wasnt picking it up. When the pics were downloaded to the PC, they just looked like an ordinary black puppy. Maybe tomorrow in sunlight it will show up better.

I will look at him tomorrow after he wakes up and see if it looks like the white undercoat syndrom pipelineozzy described.

The eye color is normal, but I will also do some searching for info about follicular dysplacia that nowhavethreebears mentioned.

Thanks bunches

 

[Pipelineozzy]

If it's white undercoat syndrome...it's harmless, and you don't need to worry about it. It's almost as if they get stressed at a certain age, and for a while, some of the hair grows white, then turns black again. If you looked close at the hair, it's like (don't laugh) when your roots are growing out...but then it goes back to the normal color. I used to think it correlated to the first vaccination, and that they were stressed from that, but I've seen it come before that now too, so I have no idea why it happens. I had one years and years ago that had it bad enough that she almost looked like a grey puppy..but by the time she was 9 months old, all that remained was a bit on her pants and feathers, and a bit on her butt....all the places that puppy coat persisted. The one place I have never seen them get it is on their faces or ears or feet...but pretty much everywhere else. My new pup has it on his butt and down his back legs, and nowhere else...but his is very subtle. I've had a lot of fun over the years asking vets what it is...lol...and not one of them has a clue. I can't say, though, that I have ever noticed the hair having a different texture than any of the rest of the hair.

 

[Piratebears]

what ever it is he sounds lovely ! i do like an underdog or one with something different ! send him over please ! lol

 

[Angela]

This happened to Evan when he was a young pup. He was very sick with various problems before I got him.
When he came here at 4 mths his butt and pants were a silverish colour, with black at the roots, it was probably from stress (illness). Anyway it all disappeared in a few months.

 

[cedarvalleynewfoundlands]

Oh Piratebears!!!I can only imagine that a trip across the pond would only add to his stress, which would probably make him all grey So far, the information that most closely matches what he has is what pipelineozzy describes. He went for his Cardiology check the other day, and the Cardiologist asked me what was causing the grey hilights. I told her I was hoping she could tell me, but no such luck. My regular vet also is very interested in what is causing it. He says its not follicular dysplacia, since that causes hair loss and he has plenty of hair!! His opinion is that it isnt a symptom of anything serious he is aware of. The Cardiologist knows a professor who is in research who is a self described genetics buff, so she is going to run it by him. Neither our Cardiologist or our regular vet seem to think it is a sign of anything serious, just very interesting.
The Cardiologist called today and said she had run it by her co-workers, and no one else had heard of it either. She is part of a large referral only practice that has several types of DACVIM certified specialists, so at least I know its not associated with anything serious that any of the vets there are aware of.
My regular vet and Cardiologist have been a big help, since its something they havent seen before and it interests them.
So now MY curiousity is piqued!! Hopefully I'll get some idea of what it is, but at least as far as everyone thinks its not anything serious, just different.
will let you all know if we find out anything.
My guess is that he will have the same outcome as Angela described with Evan, at least thats my hope

 

[Pipelineozzy]

Well if any of them find anything..please let me know. It's actually not a rare thing at all....where I come from, all the breeders just call it "white undercoat syndrome"...and none of us has very been able to find any explanation, veterinary or otherwise, as to why it happens. The puppy is not 'sick" or anything, it just grows white coat for a while. BTW...I have a dog here that is over 13 years old...healthy...and she had white undercoat syndrome when she was a baby...so obviously it hasn't been a long term thing. (She is getting so gray now that she almost looks like it's coming back LOL.)

 

[cedarvalleynewfoundlands]

Do you know if it occurs in other dark coated dogs, or is it a Newf thing?
My vet had said he'd never noticed it, but if its a Newf thing, he doesnt see many Newfs except mine.That is really odd, since the breeders in the area I'm in havent seen it, and they've been breeding for while too.
I wonder if it can be a regional thing. Seems strange, but I guess maybe it could be.
I've seen grey on brown pups, but never in a black.In the browns it normally leaves when they are an adult too. He sure is cute, with or without grey highlites!!

 

[KatieB]

Mary it happens in Berners as well at least it does on the black parts of their coats. I know of a litter born not too long ago that it happened to about 4 out of 9 in the litter. They're now losing puppy fur and adult fur is growing in nice and black. They also did not know the cause although some of the pups did go through some stress periods so perhaps that is the cause?

 

[Pipelineozzy]

I've only ever seen it in giant dogs...and have seen a lot of black lab pups, but never one with white undercoat. If any of you have the little book by Ron Pemberton, he actually mentions it in that book somewhere...mine is out on loan.

 

[cedarvalleynewfoundlands]

Thanks so much everyone.
I'm not worried about it, especially since his new family is thrilled with him and isnt bothered by it, in fact they kind of like it. I had just never seen it before and was curious about it. Now I'll be curious to see if the adult coat grows in all black.

 

[Angela]

If it's like Evan's was, then it will grow in black. One would never know he had "white butt and pants" now.

 

[Ginny]

I've heard it referred to as a variegated coat which can happen when there's Landseer in the pedigree. If that's what it is, it'll come in all black.

 

[cedarvalleynewfoundlands]

Thanks for the info Ginny. I had wondered if it had to do with the Landseer in the pedigree. AND Congrats to you and Jill on Louisville!!!!