help with water training

[Melissa]

I have mentioned this once before and did not get to many responses so I thought I would try again.
I take Emily to the beach every weekend and we are still having a big problem with her climbing over the top of you when the water gets over her head. Yesterday she swam out to my step daughter when she saw her swimming and clawed her all up.
Neither me or my stepdaughter are strong enough or have long enough arms to hold her away from us.

I know she is not intentionally trying to hurt us but I think that she just gets so worried that she responds this way. I have tried sitting in the water with her and she does great until we start to move deeper then as soon as Emily gets over her head it's like she panics and climbs all over us.

I don't know if this is a confidence problem because she loves to swim in the deep water on her own. And she is great at retrieving. One other thing to mention is that she only does this with us, She swims perfectly next to strangers.

Any suggestions as to why you think she does this or what I can do to stop this behavior would be greatly appreciated. I'm tired of leaving the beach black & blue every time. And I want to be able to swim with my dog
Thanks in advance!

 

[kzdz]

How about using a doggie life jacket to help her float? Maybe it'll help her gain some confidence and stop panicking when her feet leave the bottom.

Kelli

 

[Melissa]

Thanks Kelli, but I don't think that is the problem. She swims very smoothly and does not panic when she is by herself. She would swim all day if I let her. You know when you watch a dog first learning to swim and their front paws go way above the water line? She does not do that. It seems to be only when we are in the water with her that she climbs on us.
But I still may try the life jacket thing anyway

 

[MGoBlue]

I don't have a solution, but if she only does this with you, and she has no problems when strangers are swimming in that depth, then maybe she is being protective.
Perhaps she is worried that when you're out past her own head, she considers it too far, and she panics and tries to "paw" you back in to shore(and climbs all over you in the process.)
That's just my thought. I don't know how to fix it, though!

 

[Ivoryudx]

Hello,

This is a typical response that a inexperienced Newfie will have when they don't know HOW to save you. This may be confusing but if you can follow, you should be able to get this worked out within a few trips to the water. The key is showing them a path they can do to approach you in the water. They can come out to you, circle you, and go to shore.

There are a couple different ways to teach this, but the most important thing is to always keep your feet on bottom, until your dog understands how to behave. You can even get on your knees and work with the dog just approaching you walking in shallow water.

Put a double long line on her, and you take one end out to where your in chest deep water, and someone else has the other long line on shore, with her attached on two buckle collars to each long line.

The person on shore holds her, while you get situated, then call her out to you, and as she gets within arms length, reach out and hold/guide her, (at arms length) as you turn in a circle telling her to go around you. As you turn, be sure and put the rope from the person on shore over your head. When you come around facing shore again, the person on shore then pulls her back towards shore, and you need to grab the hair on her rump, and walk back to shore with her. The person on shore may need to really hang on tight keeping her off of you the first few feet, showing her she needs to come back to shore. The long line that you have is to get her to come out to you, but if she does without any trouble you could probably do away with it.

The purpose of grabbing the hair on the rump is so she knows you are coming back with her. This is actually the basic part of the "save the victim" exercise for the NCA Water Tests, but I've found it to be the the correct path in teaching dogs what their supposed to do with you in the water.

For the actual SWIM with your dog, you can start walking in chest deep water, parallel to shore, while your dog swims, then add simulated swimming strokes with your arms, all while your walking. Once the dog can accept you doing this, then you can actually go swim with them beside you.

I hope this makes sense, please feel free to ask specific questions, if you don't understand, because its pure joy to swim WITH your dog, but very dangerous if not done correctly. Everything should be done with leashes or long lines, until your dog knows how to be in the water with you safely, and preferably not by yourself.

Good Luck,
Susan

 

[Melissa]

Thank you so much! So I guess her instinct is there but she has no idea what to do with it?
Is that what you meant?

I will work on the long line exercise next weekend with my husband. It is usually just me that goes to the beach with her but I think I persuaded my husband to help me when I told him he doesn't have to go into the water. He was stung by a sting ray a couple of years back and is now very leery about being in the water.

Anyway, I appreciate your experience and help. At least now I have a plan to try something different. Instead of the blind leading the blind.

 

[macgirl13ca]

Wow! Thanx Susan I've never been in the water over my knees with Bubba, the water is kinda cold up here, but I may just get brave and try that this weekend, as I'd like to get him into water work.

 

[Ivoryudx]

Absolutely, she is showing that she wants to help you, but has no clue as to how. Some dogs will literally grab your arm, hand, clothes, or anything they can get a hold of, and start back for shore, but if their confused, then you need to be calm and firm showing them exactly what to do. They really do get worried about us, so show them your confident that you know exactly what they need to do.

You can also do the long line scenario on land, to show her the path/pattern, especially, if she really freaks out and you can't get her calmed down.

Be sure and talk to her, telling her, she's really good, as she becomes successful at what you want. I even like to give my dogs a big hug when we get back to waiding depth for them, kind of a thank you for their help.

Eventually, you may get a dog who repeatedly comes out to you and circles you and goes back to shore, or just continues to circle until you grab hold and go back with them. Either way, its a good thing.

One thing to be aware of, when you start swimming or walking in the water with your dog, is that it's totally natural for them to try and crowd/push you back towards shore. Be firm with them, that you are okay, and they will learn to accept you being in the water. Their smart enough to figure out when you are in trouble and when you are just enjoying yourself, but sometimes it takes time and training. The instincts are different in all dogs.

You should also keep in mind not to over expose your dog to a lot of screaming and yelling play at the water, because that is a huge trigger for them to kick into "save mode". You don't want them to become immune to it, and you don't want them to become stressed that they can't always go help the person/child yelling.

Susan

 

[dogger]

this is great info. this weekend we are doing the water seminare with Baogie. we were told to bring a couple of long lines. so I would guess this is what it is for... the only problem is we are not going to be able get her in the water. she was spayed last thursday and will still have her stitches... i did not think about ths when we did the surgry. but at least we will be there learning. I will share what I find out on Sunday.

 

[Melissa]

Thank you again Susan! I printed this topic out for me to keep. Do you have any suggestions on any exercises that I can do in the water or on land with just Emily and myself? I'm usually solo at the dog beach but am trying to get hubby to go with me more often. You would think that living in FL there might be a few water classes for the dogs and their owners? Thanks again for all of you wonderful advise and help.

 

[Ivoryudx]

Sorry about the delay in getting this posted, but there are a lot of things you can do on land with your dog before you even go to the water....Just a few....

You can work on retrieving the life jacket, the boat cushion, the bumper, and even the three foot paddle. You can toss them just like a ball, and play fetch, and then work it where you just lay it out in the yard, before you bring the dog out, and then get them to look at it from a distance and work the retrieve without the toss. Then you can add multiple items out there, and work on getting the dog to go get a specific one....you can either teach the dog that each have a specific name, and he goes and get just the one you mention, or you can mark using your arm to guide the dogs visual direction to the item you want them to retrieve.(I prefer the latter, because its sometimes hard to tell the difference when looking at the dogs eye level)

Its important to make this fun, especially if you have a dog who doesn't enjoy retrieving. Every dog is different, some will pick up anything you give them, others won't touch the cushion, or the life jacket, one day, and then the life jacket becomes their most favorite thing in the world. If I have a dog who doesn't like a specific item, I'll keep it in the living room and play tug with it for a while, and that item will be the only thing we train with for a couple of weeks.

You can also work with your dog to be called by strangers in weird hats, sun glasses, coats, and even life jackets on land. They should not use the words "come dog" as that is a formal command, but they can use "here dog", "help dog", "help me dog". In the beginning they can use the dogs name, but the dog should also learn that they don't have to have their name called to go help(approach a stranger). Then you can add them taking their bumper to the stranger and circling the stranger(preferably from the strangers right).
The reason for that is:
Typically the dog starts out on your left side. You put the bumper in the dogs mouth with the rope coming out its right side, between the two of you. When the dog goes around the strangers right side the rope will be easy for the stranger to grab and put over their head, and if the dog circles more than a arms length from the stranger in the water then the rope will naturally float into the stranger and not away. This is actually a basic finish in obedience, just in the water, so a lot of dogs already know how to do a go around.

Watching your dog is very important...learn which direction they naturally turn to come back to shore, so that when you put a rope bumper in their mouth to go out to a boat, you put it with the rope coming out the side away from the direction the dog normally turns. This way, it will float towards the boat, and not be cut off by the dog returning to shore, if the dog turns up short of the boat.

Okay, enough for now, go have some fun! If your really interested in the exercises, you can download them from the NCA Website at:
www.newfdogclub.org

Then just get creative and think about how you can show the dog what you want it to do....it can be a lot of fun for both you and your dog!

Susan