AKC or CKC Registration
- Thread starter BTA2M2
- Start date
new_2_newf
New member
I guess maybe if you wanted to show outside the states?
BluwaterNewfs
New member
There are 2 CKC - The Canadian Kennel Club which is Canada's version of the AKC. THe other, Continental is used by puppy mills and such to register puppies.
ardeagold
New member
You need to ask if you're interested. Molly is both AKC and CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) registered since her breeder has a Reg'd kennel in Canada. I believe that all CKC registered pups from Canada are eligible for AKC registration, however, CKC (Continental) are not eligible for dual registration because the "purity" of the line can't be validated.
cedarvalleynewfoundlands
New member
Continental Kennel Club is a VERY interesting registry! Below is a link to their registration application. Note the "Witness Section". http://www.continentalkennelclub.com/Downloads/CanineApp2009.pdf
This is the area of the application that you use if either one or both parents doesnt have registration papers from a recognized registry:shocker:. For this "option", you need to submit 3 full body photos of your dog.
If CKC thinks it looks like the breed you say it is, they issue papers
I would stay away from CKC (Continental..NOT the Canadian registry), APRI, or any of the alternative registries except UKC. UKC is the second oldest registry in the US, and is reputable also. Beware though, as there is also a UKCI, which is not the same thing!!!! Also, UKC will accept AKC registration for a dual registration, but I dont think AKC will accept UKC.....not sure about that though.
This is the area of the application that you use if either one or both parents doesnt have registration papers from a recognized registry:shocker:. For this "option", you need to submit 3 full body photos of your dog.
If CKC thinks it looks like the breed you say it is, they issue papers
I would stay away from CKC (Continental..NOT the Canadian registry), APRI, or any of the alternative registries except UKC. UKC is the second oldest registry in the US, and is reputable also. Beware though, as there is also a UKCI, which is not the same thing!!!! Also, UKC will accept AKC registration for a dual registration, but I dont think AKC will accept UKC.....not sure about that though.
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Sun Valley
New member
There was a recent discussion on the NCA breeder's list, which someone pointed out and was confirmed by the AKC, that if you sell a puppy on limited registration, then someone register's it with UKC, the AKC will then give you full registration. I put in my contract that puppies may ONLY be registered with the AKC...period.
I can post the article if anyone would like to read it.
Lou Ann
I can post the article if anyone would like to read it.
Lou Ann
cedarvalleynewfoundlands
New member
Thats really scary!
Sun Valley
New member
That's different Marlis...I am talking about selling pet puppies on limited...all show potential puppies go on full registration registration with me as a co-owner.
LA
LA
ardeagold
New member
That is scary!
The UKC is considered by AKC to be a reputable registry, so if true, that's a big problem. Cole is registered with both AKC and UKC but was registered with the AKC first via the breeder. I needed to register him with the UKC because I showed him to his CH with them as well.
The UKC does require proof of parentage via UKC or AKC (or other UKC accepted registries) to register with them. You have to have the parents registration numbers and a 3 generation pedigree from that registry.
There are many breeds that the UKC recognizes that the AKC does not. Those wouldn't be able to be registered with the AKC because they're not an accepted AKC breed. Those breeds have their own organizations or associations, such as the American Bulldog Association. Some have recently been accepted into the AKC as well, like the Neopolitan Mastiff, and Leonberger. They've been accepted into the UKC for a long time.
Here are the All Breed Registries that the UKC approves:
AKC
BKC (Bermuda Kennel Club)
CKC (Canadian Kennel Club)
FCI (International)
FDSB (Field Dog Stud Book)
NAVHDA (North American Versatile Hunting Dog Assn)
TKC (The Kennel Club - United Kingdom)
I can see there might be an issue with those from the FDSB and the NAVHDA, although those registries are very old and as far as the FDSB goes, any champions and runner up champions must be DNA tested.
So it looks like to get into the AKC from one of those (if the dog doesn't have AKC lineage), one would have to register with them (needing at least a 3 gen pedigree to do so), and then with the UKC (also needing a pedigree to do so), and then with the AKC.
That's a lot to go through to get a bad dog registered with the AKC.
I'm sure it can be and has been done, but most of the breeders you see on these sites who register with the CKC (Continental), or APR, have no history on the dog's lineage, so can't prove a thing. OR they're suspended or banned from the AKC for breaking the rules. The Continental KC and APR register "hybrids" (read: mutts)....the others don't. They're puppy mill or BYB registries. You also see some pets in pet stores coming from them......but you also see pets in pet stores that are AKC registered.
So, remember, just because a dog is AKC registered, doesn't mean it's a quality dog from a quality breeder. It can also come from a puppy mill through a broker like the Hunte Corp. Our Addie Mae is a Hunte Corp/puppy mill dog, and is AKC registered...full registration too!
The best method for finding a puppy is to go to the national breed club (for Newfs it's the NCA...Newfoundland Club of America) and go to the Breeder's page. Then (after doing all your research about what constitutes a good breeder, seeing the lines you're interested in at shows, or other breed events...or AKC events), call and start talking to them. See if you "click", do your research on OFA for clearances, and take your time.
The UKC is considered by AKC to be a reputable registry, so if true, that's a big problem. Cole is registered with both AKC and UKC but was registered with the AKC first via the breeder. I needed to register him with the UKC because I showed him to his CH with them as well.
The UKC does require proof of parentage via UKC or AKC (or other UKC accepted registries) to register with them. You have to have the parents registration numbers and a 3 generation pedigree from that registry.
There are many breeds that the UKC recognizes that the AKC does not. Those wouldn't be able to be registered with the AKC because they're not an accepted AKC breed. Those breeds have their own organizations or associations, such as the American Bulldog Association. Some have recently been accepted into the AKC as well, like the Neopolitan Mastiff, and Leonberger. They've been accepted into the UKC for a long time.
Here are the All Breed Registries that the UKC approves:
AKC
BKC (Bermuda Kennel Club)
CKC (Canadian Kennel Club)
FCI (International)
FDSB (Field Dog Stud Book)
NAVHDA (North American Versatile Hunting Dog Assn)
TKC (The Kennel Club - United Kingdom)
I can see there might be an issue with those from the FDSB and the NAVHDA, although those registries are very old and as far as the FDSB goes, any champions and runner up champions must be DNA tested.
So it looks like to get into the AKC from one of those (if the dog doesn't have AKC lineage), one would have to register with them (needing at least a 3 gen pedigree to do so), and then with the UKC (also needing a pedigree to do so), and then with the AKC.
That's a lot to go through to get a bad dog registered with the AKC.
I'm sure it can be and has been done, but most of the breeders you see on these sites who register with the CKC (Continental), or APR, have no history on the dog's lineage, so can't prove a thing. OR they're suspended or banned from the AKC for breaking the rules. The Continental KC and APR register "hybrids" (read: mutts)....the others don't. They're puppy mill or BYB registries. You also see some pets in pet stores coming from them......but you also see pets in pet stores that are AKC registered.
So, remember, just because a dog is AKC registered, doesn't mean it's a quality dog from a quality breeder. It can also come from a puppy mill through a broker like the Hunte Corp. Our Addie Mae is a Hunte Corp/puppy mill dog, and is AKC registered...full registration too!
The best method for finding a puppy is to go to the national breed club (for Newfs it's the NCA...Newfoundland Club of America) and go to the Breeder's page. Then (after doing all your research about what constitutes a good breeder, seeing the lines you're interested in at shows, or other breed events...or AKC events), call and start talking to them. See if you "click", do your research on OFA for clearances, and take your time.
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Joan Fisher
New member
Hi Louanne,
Do you realize that if you sell a puppy to someone in Canada with limited registration, that registration is not recognized by CKC, and the pup cannot be registered in Canada - which means you can't do draft dog tests, obedience trials, water rescue, rallye or anything which could confer a title by CKC! In Canada all registered dogs get full CKC registration but if considered to be pet quality, with a non-breeding contract. Tiika has both AKC and CKC registrations now but did not receive her full AKC registration until after she was spayed - which I would not do until she was 2 years old. Only after she received her full AKC registration could she be registered with CKC. I didn't know that before we got Tiika but it really puts a big downer on getting an American dog for Canadians.
nowhavethreebears
New member
Never mind...
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Sun Valley
New member
Hi Joan,
Yes, I know that... but I haven't sold any puppies to Canada in a long time, the last being a pet who was neutered...
Lou Ann
Yes, I know that...
but I haven't sold any puppies to Canada in a long time, the last being a pet who was neutered...Lou Ann
new_2_newf
New member
I would also think there is some room for discussion there as well. If I as an owner wanted a pet pup from an American breeder and wanted to participate in CKC (by this I mean Canadian) events like draft, water, etc, then I would put that out on the table with the breeder. If the buyer and the breeder can come to an agreement with ownership and reg types, then super, if not, keep looking. I am certain that Lou Ann has her reasons and that they are in the best interest of her pups, but I am also sure she has a brain and can weigh other possible options on an individual basis.
The agreement I have with Sulley's breeder is pretty simple...she had him fully reg'd under AKC in hope he would be a good show dog. He is not, so she placed him in a home (with me). He is fully reg'd and co-owned which wasn't a big deal for either of us. At such a time as he is given full health clearances for breeding or is altered, she will remain co-owner. After I get him snipped, we can discuss him being only owned by me.
That was the first thing we discussed when I called her....what I want in a dog, what I want to do with the dog, what I am not willing to accept in a dog, etc. Then she told me about my boy, and we went from there.
The agreement I have with Sulley's breeder is pretty simple...she had him fully reg'd under AKC in hope he would be a good show dog. He is not, so she placed him in a home (with me). He is fully reg'd and co-owned which wasn't a big deal for either of us. At such a time as he is given full health clearances for breeding or is altered, she will remain co-owner. After I get him snipped, we can discuss him being only owned by me.
That was the first thing we discussed when I called her....what I want in a dog, what I want to do with the dog, what I am not willing to accept in a dog, etc. Then she told me about my boy, and we went from there.
I think Sulley's mom makes the critical point. People are often wary of co-ownerships. You gotta know your breeder. Patti & I will always co-own Volare. My girls are AKC registered only as they didn't need dual citizenship for hanging around the house & going on walks or to the lake.
ardeagold
New member
True, but co-ownerships are normal with a show dog. And very necessary with a full registration. I couldn't imagine NOT co-owning my show dogs. It protects the breeder, and if you trust and like your breeder, there shouldn't be a problem.
If the dog is sold on limited registration, from a quality breeder, I'd still think the breeder *might* want co-ownership, until the dog is spayed/neutered, especially if people are waiting until 2 years to spay/neuter. You just never know. Some non-show dogs end up being good quality show dogs...and are shown later (which means, of course the registration must be changed).
Some "pets" end up back at the breeder a year or so later, and if the dog "turns out well"...then the breeder can choose to show and breed.
Co-ownership is only smart, IMO.
If the dog is sold on limited registration, from a quality breeder, I'd still think the breeder *might* want co-ownership, until the dog is spayed/neutered, especially if people are waiting until 2 years to spay/neuter. You just never know. Some non-show dogs end up being good quality show dogs...and are shown later (which means, of course the registration must be changed).
Some "pets" end up back at the breeder a year or so later, and if the dog "turns out well"...then the breeder can choose to show and breed.
Co-ownership is only smart, IMO.
Windancer
New member
I brought this up years ago on newf-l...as I knew limited registered dogs would be accepted with full registry by other kennel clubs..(term used losely) It can be a real problem...that is great to have in a contract....but the main thing is to be as comfortable as possible with who the new home is...a contract is only as good as the two people who sign it...and strange disappointing things do happen. As far as a choice, AKC is 'THE' registry..Commercial breeders formed their own registry when AKC started to get tough and do DNA testing, as they thought AKC wanted to put them out of business.. It was a bad decision at the time, and there were good AKC dogs that got put into their registry.. I understand that AKC is reclaiming some of those registries now...just heresay... if lineage can be proven.
