A question to the breeders(puppy evaluation).

A

absolutely new

Inactive Member
Hi!
I'm just curious if any of the breeders use puppy evaluation method of Pat Hastings?
May be anyone knows some breeders that do use it.
If yes, what are the results? Does it really work?
 
sarnewfie

sarnewfie

New member
Hi absolutly new.
i never used it, nor do i use any of those things, what i have found is, that you can have a pup pegged, and when it goes into its new environment, say with two other dogs, it learns from those two dogs, and completly changes,a lot of times surprisingly so.
i thinkthe environment they are living in, the way they are raised by their new parents shapes them into what they will become.
i am sure they are great tests, but i did have one litter done by somewhat an expert here, and i was blown away at how different they all turned out completly not what was predicted.
;0)
ok i just looked her up on the net, this reminds me of a labby person i know, multiple titled up the ying ying labs with HIT OB CH etc.....
she had a pup done with this method, picked the one told it will be a certain personality and it did not turn out the way predicted, she was raised with three other labs.

i am sure it is a nice gradient, but sometimes it probably doesnt work.

[ 08-14-2003, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: sarnewfie ]
 
A

absolutely new

Inactive Member
That can be right concerning the temperament not everything is genetically determined.
There certainly can be some changes in personality depending on socialization etc, but how about the structural evaluation according to which the puppy should be evaluated at the age of 8 weeks +/-3days and at this age if you'll look at the puppy you can see exactly how the adult dog will look like, sounds really strange but everything is explained very clearly.
 
sarnewfie

sarnewfie

New member
They still can change, depending on how they are raised.
did this pat hastings to personality test?
or both the personality and conformation?
i did not read it all.
but i do know kathy who has field titled dogs on both ends akc and ukc, said she did not care for the test.
that is just one person though.
i have found that even with the best eye, that the one they pick out to be the most sound, ends up the smallest pup passed them up by far.
i am sure others will comment on this with more experience on this matter.
hopefully it will catch ROM`s eye, i would be interested in what they say.
 
B

bevicrocker

New member
SAR, I have meant to ask you before, How many of your Newfs or their offspring have their CH & how about OFA results/do you believe in them? Just wondering?
 
L

Lighthouse

Inactive Member
In answer to your question regarding Pat Hastings; she has an impeccable reputation, and top breeders that I know personally swear by her methods!

Lighthouse Newfoundlands

[ 08-15-2003, 01:39 AM: Message edited by: LighthouseNewfs ]
 
C

chlandseers

Inactive Member
We haven't used Pat's method but a lot of breeders (all breeds) on the showdog-list swear by it.
We don't look at a puppy only at 8 weeks but from the time that it is whelped- how it is developing and growing. What changes it has gone thru already and what we anticipate it will do in the future. We try to pick what we feel will be the best puppy in the litter based on how our dogs have grown up/matured in the past. We are willing to accept a fault or two and go with the one that meets the standard best overall. Markings on Landseers are not considered. We look for structure and movement over markings, size, etc. We haven't had to worry about temperament and our dogs are well socialized so there isn't much that they aren't exposed to. So far we haven't been too disappointed. All of our (older) Newfs (with the exception of our first 2 Newfs) earned their championships. The younger Newfs aren't mature enough yet for the show ring but have done great at the very few matches they have attended.
Lisa, have you used Pat's method and how did the puppies mature using the method? Were you disappointed or happy with the pups at maturity? Did the pups attain their championship?
ROM Newf
 
L

Lighthouse

Inactive Member
Hello chlandseers ~

A breeder friend of mine in CA tried it a few times very recently, and was very happy with the results. I'm going to try it on this litter. It is VERY time-consuming. Our methods (yours and mine) regarding litter evaluation are very similar. I start evaluating from day one, and follow my instincts. Movement is very important to me, as well as bone structure and of course, the headpiece. I am REALLY into short muzzles and the stop. I do agree about markings; though I rarely breed Landseers. It's about the entire Newfoundland as a whole. As my mother loves to say: "Why throw out the baby with the bath water?" It took me a while to figure out what the heck she meant! ;)

Lighthouse Newfoundlands

[ 08-15-2003, 02:12 AM: Message edited by: LighthouseNewfs ]
 
sarnewfie

sarnewfie

New member
lighthouse, i never down talked pat, i know her reputation and she may be that good, but there are times when methods are not 100%.
but i have only heard of this one woman using her testing. and she was not happy with the final results conformation wise, and temperament wise she turned out opposite what the test said she would.
beverly i use both ofa and penn hip.

my pups the majority arepenn hip and at early age are ofa prelimed, many pet owners do not feel need to ofa at two, my first litter is ready now.
so far penny has been done and tonka is going next week, scannon most likely wont be done as he is not showing.
i encourage my people to use it, but cannot force them to.
future litters as they mature will hopefully even just the pets, be officially done and entered.

go to the ofa database, penny is in there sydney and morgan, you can go to my website, cruise around and we also use penn hip.
you can go read in the breeding section my opinions, we had many discussions on this stuff before.
the website is here
http://www.harborwindsnewfoundlands.homestead.com
lets see
sydney is penn hip can be seen at the litter anouncment page and if you click on his pedigree morgans ofa and pennhip are listed, penny is penn hip and ofa and syd will be when he hits two. his prelims are great that we recently did and normally pennhip is right on with ofa, unless they are injured at a young age..

[ 08-15-2003, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: sarnewfie ]
 
Angela

Angela

Super Moderator
Is there a website where I can learn more about this Pat Hastings evaluation of puppies? This topic is very interesting. For the first time recently I have heard about a breeder who uses this method but I have no idea what it is all about.
 
newfvo

newfvo

New member
I use Pat Hastings method of litter evaluation on all my puppies. I have found it to be dead on. The trick is to really understand the structure of your particular breed so you know what you are looking at. In a puppy, becuase it is so much smaller, the differences are much more subtle than in a full grown dog. I found the order and completeness of the Hastings evaluation to be very helpful and recomend to all breeders her video "The Puppy Puzzle". I will be dusting it off soon to watch before Ellie's litter is ready for evaluation!
 
janices

janices

New member
She has a book out, "Tricks of the Trade: From Best Intentions to Best in Show", that's a good one for anybody involved in dogs to read.
 
L

Lighthouse

Inactive Member
SarNewfie ~

I do not think anything is 100% accurate, reliable, or guaranteed when it comes to dealing with living creatures, nor did I imply that regarding Pat Hasting's evaluation methods.
We could breed a male and a female, both hips that are OFA certified, but that does not guarantee OFA get.
We could also breed parents, both with OFA certified hearts, and end up with an SAS puppy.
There are no guarantees in this world when it comes to living, both human and animal, creatures.
 
Codes

Codes

Active member
Is she the one that created the "puppy puzzle"? If so then I know several Saint breeders who swear by that and have had great success. I think when/if I ever breed I might just use that evaluation method.
 
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