Hi newf netters. thank you for all your help. baloo had his xrays today and they are not good. It appears to be way out of the socket. Vet (per previous conversation) has recommended rimadyl and THR surgery. he's 16 months. I have a digital photo and would be happy to post it for informal non-vet but newfie experienced opinions! how do i post a picture? next step is a direct referral to orthopedic specialist and scheduling thr operation at ohio state.
xrays today... hips ...dysplasia...help!
- Thread starter amy45888
- Start date
Jeannie
Super Moderator
From what I have been told about x-rays the positioning of the dog has a LOT to do with the results. See those 'round/dark' spots in the pelvic bone. My OFA vet (Lonnie Davis) told me they should look the same if the dog is positioned right. Those do NOT look the same so I assume the positioning is off. I'd get another set of xrays from someone who knows how to get good xrays.
Here is a photo of Adam's hips. Notice how even/level it is. BTW Adam has OFA excellent hips
I took your photo and turned it to match Adam's. See the difference in the positioning/quality of the x-ray? You dog may have some hip problems but maybe not as bad as thought. If you want info on my vet he is only about 1 1/2 hours from Columbus OH. You can PM me
[ 09-22-2007, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: Jeannie ]
Here is a photo of Adam's hips. Notice how even/level it is. BTW Adam has OFA excellent hips
I took your photo and turned it to match Adam's. See the difference in the positioning/quality of the x-ray? You dog may have some hip problems but maybe not as bad as thought. If you want info on my vet he is only about 1 1/2 hours from Columbus OH. You can PM me
[ 09-22-2007, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: Jeannie ]
Ivoryudx
New member
Whoa there! Slow down a bit. Is he still limping? What Vet took those x-rays? As Jeannie pointed out, they are not straight. Even though Jeannie says Lonnie is HER OFA vet, ALL of us with Newfs in this area use him.
People fly dogs in from all over the country to have him do their x-rays. He's THAT good!
Both knees are not pointing straight up in Baloo's x-rays. As I've pointed out before, it takes a very skilled but strong person to be able to pull a Newfoundlands legs down into the correct position and hold them there for the picture. The whole time keeping the body, head and front feet straight too. Those are the basic things that I can see in your x-ray, but the downsizing for the Net really doesn't allow to see the actual hip socket. Is there arthritic changes going on? What specifically did your Vet tell you was wrong? Was it Subluxed? Was it Shallow? Was there remodeling? Is there flatness on the ball? Your Vet should be able to specifically show you, where the problem is, and WHY it is a problem. If they can't, then you need to go somewhere else. Its sad, but many Vets do not know how to read an x-ray, or diagnose Orthopedic Problems.
Dogs don't walk on their x-rays. Many dogs who don't even have hip sockets still walk and don't cry in pain. Of course they don't have the flexibility, or stamina other dogs do, but they do fine with what they have. Hip Dysplasia does not automatically mean a dog needs a hip replacement. Some do, but some don't, so don't rush into anything. Now is the time to educate yourself, and IF, he is not limping, don't put him through something 'just in case' because one Vet thought they saw something on an x-ray! Let Baloo tell you what he can handle. If he's fine right now, then take it a day at a time, knowing that sometime it might change, but then, it might not.
Check out this article written by a friend of mine. She has a Newf with NO, hip sockets, and she doesn't even have enough bone for a replacement either.
http://www.woofnwords.com/broke.htm
Both knees are not pointing straight up in Baloo's x-rays. As I've pointed out before, it takes a very skilled but strong person to be able to pull a Newfoundlands legs down into the correct position and hold them there for the picture. The whole time keeping the body, head and front feet straight too. Those are the basic things that I can see in your x-ray, but the downsizing for the Net really doesn't allow to see the actual hip socket. Is there arthritic changes going on? What specifically did your Vet tell you was wrong? Was it Subluxed? Was it Shallow? Was there remodeling? Is there flatness on the ball? Your Vet should be able to specifically show you, where the problem is, and WHY it is a problem. If they can't, then you need to go somewhere else. Its sad, but many Vets do not know how to read an x-ray, or diagnose Orthopedic Problems.
Dogs don't walk on their x-rays. Many dogs who don't even have hip sockets still walk and don't cry in pain. Of course they don't have the flexibility, or stamina other dogs do, but they do fine with what they have. Hip Dysplasia does not automatically mean a dog needs a hip replacement. Some do, but some don't, so don't rush into anything. Now is the time to educate yourself, and IF, he is not limping, don't put him through something 'just in case' because one Vet thought they saw something on an x-ray! Let Baloo tell you what he can handle. If he's fine right now, then take it a day at a time, knowing that sometime it might change, but then, it might not.
Check out this article written by a friend of mine. She has a Newf with NO, hip sockets, and she doesn't even have enough bone for a replacement either.
http://www.woofnwords.com/broke.htm
Amy, I agree with everyone else here. The balls look good and round to me, and the V next to the ball on both hips are present, as they should be. There are other reasons why he could be limping that are non hip related, and he may just need time to heal. I have seen this happen before.
Ok...baloo has been limping badly for about two weeks which is why the vet recommended and gave me rimadyl. afte rreading more about it, i decided to hold off until after the xrays. I was not there (i'm on abusiness trip right now in the hotel room) but my husband said she told him he has two choices: THR or euthanasia. she said there are signs of arthritis and clearly it is way out of the socket. she did write us a referral to an orthopedic specialist. I'm in pittsburgh, if you think there is a better one i should go to..please let me know. Speaking as a human, my husband and I HATE surgery. I always feel surgery should be the last option, but the vet is pushing very hard for it. both my husband and i feel sick to our stomach for our poor baby.
Before the limping he was pretty active. he loves loves his walks and he loves loves meeting people. I do not want him to spend his life hobbling two feet and then crashing on the ground. i also have a 1895 victorian with at least 30 steps in the house...not ideal for a dysplastic dog.
I can definately see a difference in how the legs are aligned between my pictures and jeannies.
Susan, thanks for the article. i'm going to read it right now.
If i can get baloo not in pain, then i would happily forgo surgery, but i don't know how to make him feel better?
Before the limping he was pretty active. he loves loves his walks and he loves loves meeting people. I do not want him to spend his life hobbling two feet and then crashing on the ground. i also have a 1895 victorian with at least 30 steps in the house...not ideal for a dysplastic dog.
I can definately see a difference in how the legs are aligned between my pictures and jeannies.
Susan, thanks for the article. i'm going to read it right now.
If i can get baloo not in pain, then i would happily forgo surgery, but i don't know how to make him feel better?
Ivoryudx
New member
Just to try and add some clarity to this subject. I took Baloo's x-ray and added some lines and color to show what should be symetrical. When we post that the dog is not straight, or the dog is tilted, we're not just looking at up and down. We're looking at the depth of the x-ray....the chest is not straight up in this picture. The shaded areas and outlines should be mirror images. I hope this helps.
Edited to add:
"chest is not Straight up in this picture" - 'Straight up' meaning, coming out of the page toward you.
[ 04-06-2006, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Ivoryudx ]
Edited to add:
"chest is not Straight up in this picture" - 'Straight up' meaning, coming out of the page toward you.
[ 04-06-2006, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Ivoryudx ]
Jeannie
Super Moderator
Yes Lonnie Davis is very good. I am lucky enough for him to be only 35 minutes from my house. Many many people use him and as Susan said dogs are flown in from all over the country. He probably does more OFA hip x-rays than any vet east of the Mississippi. You can contact him at Troy Animal Hospital 937-335-8387. He is located in Troy Ohio. Troy is about 20 minutes north of Dayton OH on Interstate 75
Edited to add: He has digital x-rays. He will take them then check to see that the dog is aligned correctly. He will take a few then use the best one.
[ 04-06-2006, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: Jeannie ]
Edited to add: He has digital x-rays. He will take them then check to see that the dog is aligned correctly. He will take a few then use the best one.
[ 04-06-2006, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: Jeannie ]
Ivoryudx
New member
I'm sorry, but ANY Vet who told me that I only had TWO choices for Hip Dysplasia would get an ear full from me. That is not true, and every dog and every situation is different. Thats shameful to push like that, and shows a lack of knowledge on your Vets part.
Yes, your boy is in pain, but you need to verify that it is from the hip, and not somewhere else, or not a soft tissue injury. Has his knees been looked at? A crutiate tear can cause lameness, and is more typical of showing up after play, than hip dysplasia. Maybe he does have some Dysplasia, but be sure THAT is where the source of the pain is.
Yes, your boy is in pain, but you need to verify that it is from the hip, and not somewhere else, or not a soft tissue injury. Has his knees been looked at? A crutiate tear can cause lameness, and is more typical of showing up after play, than hip dysplasia. Maybe he does have some Dysplasia, but be sure THAT is where the source of the pain is.
janices
New member
They're right. The positioning is off. Somebody needs to take them that knows how to take x-rays. Incorrectly positioned x-rays can make a dog who's really not dysplastic or not that badly dysplastic look very dysplastic.
And any vet who told me something like that wouldn't be my vet anymore.
Dogs don't necessarily walk on their x-rays. I've had what should have been a THR newf who never had to have a THR done and lived to be almost 10 yrs. old.
[ 04-07-2006, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: janices ]
[ 04-07-2006, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: janices ]
BoundlessNewfs
New member
Check out this thread, from a couple of weeks ago. Someone else had a diagnosis of HD, and several of us shared our thoughts.
I also shared our Maggie's story and x-rays. You can clearly see that in her x-rays, she has severe bilateral hip dysplasia. She has NOT had her hips replaced, and is doing GREAT. It's all in finding a good physical therapist for your dog, who will teach you specific exercises to do. These will rebuild the muscle groups that are necessary to keep the joints in place, and to get the dog moving better. Our Maggie also does swim therapy to accomplish this.
Read the thread, and I think you will gain some insight and some hope.
Past thread about Hip Displasia
[ 01-25-2007, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: BoundlessNewfs ]
I also shared our Maggie's story and x-rays. You can clearly see that in her x-rays, she has severe bilateral hip dysplasia. She has NOT had her hips replaced, and is doing GREAT. It's all in finding a good physical therapist for your dog, who will teach you specific exercises to do. These will rebuild the muscle groups that are necessary to keep the joints in place, and to get the dog moving better. Our Maggie also does swim therapy to accomplish this.
Read the thread, and I think you will gain some insight and some hope.
Past thread about Hip Displasia
[ 01-25-2007, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: BoundlessNewfs ]
aona
New member
I agree with what everyone else is saying... do not decide what to do with your dog by what the xrays show. Remember that the vets are just there for suggestions. My dog is now 18 months old and was diagnosed with severe bilateral hip dysplasia at the age of 5 months. The first four vets said bilateral total hip replacement was needed (one was an ortho vet, one was from UCDavis). By the advice of Karen here on NN, I contacted a holistic vet and he was the first vet that said hold off on the surgery, try the holistic approach and if it doesn't work, surgery should be your last resort since THR is a salvage procedure. Yesterday, my dog almost ran over her physical therapist to get into the therapy pool. The PT said this is a dog that definately does NOT need surgery now but if we had xrays taken again, I'm betting they still look pretty bad. If you want a copy of her holistic regiment, PM me. It's a little expensive and time consuming for the first couple of months but as your dog gets better, it gets a lot easier. Good luck with your pup and keep us informed!
Ginny
New member
A side note. Being close to the medical profession (my DH is a doc), I can tell you that if you go to a surgeon, you will have surgery 90% of the time! That is their mindset. All other options should be explored thoroughly before going that route. Others here have made very sensible suggestions.
[ 04-07-2006, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Ginny ]
[ 04-07-2006, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Ginny ]
Sue M.
New member
The reason I have my Molly now was because the prior owners were told that surgery was an absolute must! Unfortunately for them, they didn't get a second opinion.
Upon going to an Orthopedic Surgeon here, we found that although Molly has hip dysplasia in both hips, with managed care, it is not a necessity to have her operated on.
Molly is a light in our lives! She's a very special girl and we love her sooooo much! I take her to see her prior owners occasionally. They were very upset about what their vet had told them. Some vets will just automatically say operate!
I'd definitely get that second x-ray and opinion!
Upon going to an Orthopedic Surgeon here, we found that although Molly has hip dysplasia in both hips, with managed care, it is not a necessity to have her operated on.
Molly is a light in our lives! She's a very special girl and we love her sooooo much! I take her to see her prior owners occasionally. They were very upset about what their vet had told them. Some vets will just automatically say operate!
I'd definitely get that second x-ray and opinion!
Henrys Mom
New member
Please go to Jeannie's vet and have them do the x-rays. And also please get a new vet.
Surgery is NOT always the answer to everything. My Henry is 3 and has never had surgery although he has mild HD and at one time had a tore cruciate. He was on Dermadexx(Is that the right name? It has been so long!) for a while and we made sure he rested and did not over do it. This was a long process and one we took very seriously, but it worked! He has healed and although appears stiff at times if active and healthy. Surgery would be my LAST resort for anything.
Please study this website because there have been many discussions about this. You can limit his activity for a while, add supplements, slowly start exercises, water therapy, LOTS of things to try before surgery.
I am shocked that a vet would suggest euthansia over this. Please change vets!!!
Surgery is NOT always the answer to everything. My Henry is 3 and has never had surgery although he has mild HD and at one time had a tore cruciate. He was on Dermadexx(Is that the right name? It has been so long!) for a while and we made sure he rested and did not over do it. This was a long process and one we took very seriously, but it worked! He has healed and although appears stiff at times if active and healthy. Surgery would be my LAST resort for anything.
Please study this website because there have been many discussions about this. You can limit his activity for a while, add supplements, slowly start exercises, water therapy, LOTS of things to try before surgery.
I am shocked that a vet would suggest euthansia over this. Please change vets!!!