Westminster Winner - Critique?

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BigBear

Inactive Member
I realize everyone has their opinions on how the breed standard should be interpreted - so....I am looking for opinions on 2001 and 2002's winner - CH Toad Halls Field Of Dreams -
in hopes of learning more about the standard. Thanks.
 

sarnewfie

New member
i had seen hawkeye at the cluster show here in our hometown, though i did not get to put my hands on him, he moves nice, has sufficient coat, suffient head (not overdone) and moves beautifully.
Look up Ralees Winddancer, he is the most close to perfect in structure and movement a newf can be, i have a tape of him at various shows, he gives you goosebumps, and is just awesome to watch moving, he took a BISS at 10 years of age this summer out of the Veterans class, he resides in california.
if you want to study structure and movement, this is the dog to watch and study
 

BigBear

Inactive Member
I most definitely want to study structure and movement - I will look him up - thank you! ;)

I also liked Hawkeye from what I could see on tape - which I know is not the best way to study an animal.
 

BigBear

Inactive Member
Having a hard time finding a site for Ralees Winddancer - could someone help me find a link?

Also, any other comments on this dog?
 

ROM Newf

New member
If you want to learn more about structure and movement, get "Dog Steps" by Rachel Paige Elliot (available in book and video format) and the AKC video on the Newfoundland. Both do a great job of showing what a perfect Newf should look and move like. There is no perfect Newf out there and the AKC video uses many different Newfs to illustrate what a perfect Newf would look like.
Pouch Cove's Locomotion had perfect movement- he's the one illustrating movement in the AKC video. Haven't seen a Newf since then that moved like him.
 

nice newfie

New member
I asked about this not long ago but it seems newfs are being shown with an Open coat.Which you would think goes against a newf Standard since it states they are flat coated not puffed up like a poodle,As far a movement goes I love watching a Newfs Gait.Anyway I have heard that the Pouch Cove line is riddled with heart problems and know of two breeders who wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.Yes they look wonderful but I can't imagine loseing puppies to health problems.That said if you go back into James pedigree he has a Pouch Cove in one of his lines but it's way back before they started breeding the cookie cutter type Newf.it's just my take on what I've learned so far.Karen
 

ROM Newf

New member
Karin said: I asked about this not long ago but it seems newfs are being shown with an Open coat.Which you would think goes against a newf Standard since it states they are flat coated not puffed up like a poodle,

There is a difference between an open coat and a coat that is "fluffed up." The open coat will stand up on end (think chow) but the fluffed up coat still lies down- the hair does not stand on end. An open coat when you run your hand across it, the fur does not lie down. The fluffed up coat of a Newf will lie down. Try it.

Karin then continued: As far a movement goes I love watching a Newfs Gait.Anyway I have heard that the Pouch Cove line is riddled with heart problems and know of two breeders who wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.Yes they look wonderful but I can't imagine loseing puppies to health problems.That said if you go back into James pedigree he has a Pouch Cove in one of his lines but it's way back before they started breeding the cookie cutter type Newf.it's just my take on what I've learned so far.Karen

Peggy Helming was one of the first to realize that there were heart problems in this breed and was one of the first to start taking all her adults and puppies to Board Certified Cardiologists. Peggy used to drive from New Jersey to Boston, MA (a good 6 hr drive one way) to have her puppies' and adults' hearts checked by a BCC. She has been very open about heart problems. But if you think she's the only breeder who has had heart problems then you better check further. Many breeders who dogs died suddenly from "bee stings" or other unexplained or frivilous reasons have now come to grips that their lines, too, have heart problems. It's not just Pouch Cove or dogs that have been bred to Pouch Cove- it's every single breeder out there. I've produced 1 SAS and 2 PS and the dogs that produced them had absolutely no Pouch Cove in the line. It was a combination of Topmast and old Nashau-Auke/Shipshape (Tamiroka).
Any breeder who claims they've never produced any heart problems is either 1) not having their dogs checked by Board Certified Cardiologists, 2) hasn't bred very many litters, or 3) is lying.
Every breeder should be taking every adult and puppy produced to Board Certified Cardiologists for heart checks and they should be rechecking their adults on a regular basis too. Vets do not have the trained ears. Dogs that cleared as puppies or young adults have been known to develop heart problems. I know of one dog who died from a heart problem. A bitch he sired is owned by someone on this forum. Not only did he die of a heart problem, but his brother and nephew all died of the same problem. Is the owner of that bitch taking her adults and puppies to a cardiologist?
Linda
Hoping I don't sprain an ankle as I get down from my soapbox. ;)
 

Jeannie

Super Moderator
Linda,
I agree with you that many bloodlines carry heart problems. Because Peggy was the first to realize heart problems in the breed tells me she is a caring breeder that is striving to better the breed. I have heard of Pouch Cove dogs having heart problems, but many of them do not. I use to work for a breeder that had Pouch Cove dogs and they were beautiful and without heart problems.

My Samantha is Pouch Cove/Top Mast breeding and she was checked by a cardioloigist and has no heart problems. Even though Samantha is spay, I just wanted to be sure her heart was ok since she is so active.
 

Sound Bay Newfs

Active member
Rory has Pouch Cove in her line and her cardiac test was fine. I know of another breeder in my area that uses Pouch Cove and her pups are fine, too. Pouch Cove is very well received in my area and the pups are very much in demand. I think to single out one line is unfortunate and inaccurate since every line or litter can have individuals with problems.
 

ROM Newf

New member
Laura,
The url took me to the main index of the AKC store and not a particular item. What you want is the Breed Standard Video of the Newfoundland (price is $17.95)
Linda
 

nice newfie

New member
OOPs didn't mean to stir the pot. When should one get the hearts checked? We have a specialist for eyes that comes to town twice a year but haven't heard of anyone else.Karen
 

ROM Newf

New member
We (meaning New England area) get our pups hearts checked when they are around 10-11 weeks of age. Adults are checked before breeding.
We are fortunate in that we have BCC at Angell Memorial in Boston, Rowley Memorial in Springfield, MA, Tufts Univ. Hospital, a BCC south of Boston and a "traveling BCC" who concentrates on Maine and New Hampshire.
If you do an internet search on "Canine Cardiologists" you should get a listing of cardiologists in the US and Canada. You can also contact the veterinarian organization in Canada and ask for a list of cardiologists.
 

sarnewfie

New member
Ralees winddancer does not have a site, but i have a still photo of him on my webpages, and as ROM stated she saw a perfect moving newf, so have i, and i also will not back down on my opinion of how wonderful dancer has reach and drive that is SO lacking in the newf of today, the newf of today trends are awful, oversized heads, weighing down cheeks, causing sagging eyes, overdone coats, newfs that sure look pretty standing but to watch them move i cringe, and they are the ones taking home the points.
newfs that are so weak in the rear they drag their back paws, and they are also winning in the ring.
studying movement from a mentor who is well studied can be something educational as much as the tape mentioned above, i have dancer, as the newf i strive to keep alive in the breeding program of today.
there are some lines i steer clear of for personal reasons, you wont see them in my newfs, but.....
i wont go on an open forum and critisize them, that is not good, use tact when trying to compare kennels or dogs

it is hard when you are on the net to truly put across the point you want to make without tone of voice or body language all it is is words and the meaning of the words can be mistaken.

of course there is not a perfect dog out there, but the movement on dancer is as close to perfect as it can be, he has minor faults that can be corrected, his head is sufficient but could be a tad bigger, but oh wow can he strut, even now at 10 years of age.
 

BigBear

Inactive Member
Thanks - I didn't realize he was on your site - I'll go take a peek. ;)

And yes, absolutely, it's difficult to always know how someone is trying to come across on the internet - I agree that person to person is the way to do it for a true understanding.
 

mollysmom

New member
I don't have anything good to say about "that" breeder, so I guess I won't say anything at all


Edited to add: You know what, I've changed my mind. With all the BAD mouthing that woman does about other peoples dogs, I don't mind whatsoever saying I wouldn't touch the Pouch Cove Line with a ten foot pole either.

[ 10-15-2002, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: mollysmom ]
 
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