surgery for entropion

[ward_hill]

Hi All,

I'm looking for some opinions about surgical correction for entropion. I searched a little on NN, but didn't find a whole lot. (I'm a bad searcher!)

I took Buckley for blood work in anticipation of having him neutered next week. We kept him intact to keep open the option to show, but for a variety of reasons decided finally not to go that route.

The vet practice where he's gone since 10 w/o has had a little turnover in their medical staff and we saw one of the new vets for the first time. Of course he found Buckley in good shape, etc. and we discussed the neutering surgery. But, he also said that Buckley had entropion and showed me how the upper eyelid was turned in a bit. Buckley always had discharge from his eyes, but not what I would consider "heavy". But, it hadn't been discussed much in the past by either of the two vets that he would usually see, even though they noted the discharge.

Since he will be going under anesthesia for neutering, it was suggested that this would also be an opportunity to correct the eyelid, thus to avoid being put under again in the future should the condition worsen.

[In one of the threads I searched, the discussion was about poor sportsmanship and deceptive practices in the show ring, including surgical alteration. Joan from Bluwater posted the rules from AKC section 8 which enumerated the prohibited procedures and these included correction of entropion.]

So, since neutering makes conformation a moot point, does it make sense to correct the condition from the standpoint of Buckley's comfort? Or is this something that Newfs live with without discomfort? Although his comfort comes first, I'm a little concerned about whether and/or how much it would change his look.

The cost for the neutering is going to be $575. The eye procedure and ointment would add another $400. (Probably high by national standards, but this is NYC:darn The money isn't a huge issue, but no one likes to throw it away on something that's unnecessary.

Just trying to arrive at a good decision healthwise and moneywise.

Thoughts please ....

 

[Bojie]

I'd get a second opinion about that. (I get a million opinions before I do any surgery). If it's not absolutely necessary and isn't causing any discomfort or won't cause health concerns in the future, I wouldn't do it (just my opinion). This new vet also might not be familiar with Newfs eyes as opposed to other breeds. I'd go to a completely different practice, and see what they have to say. Also- I'd take him and let Tom and Diane take a look and see what they think- they can take him to their vet too for an opinion. It does make sense to do surgery while he's already under anesthesia, but not unless that second surgery is truly necessary. Good for you for second guessing and doing your homework first.

 

[mrsnamsherf]

Not the same, but my Sam has a touch of ectropian, and he has discharge pretty regularly too, but does not show any discomfort. My vet says it probably keeps his eyes from closing completely when he is sleeping, so to watch for dry-eye in case he needs artificial tears. She said if it got worse, they could put a stitch in (I assume under sedation!), to tighten up the eyelid, but I have not noticed any problems...no eye rubbing or anything.

I would absolutely get a second opinion before doing surgery, especially since you do not think your boy is experiencing any real discomfort.

Marie

 

[ardeagold]

The only thing I'd suggest is to check with an Opthamologist. And if you get the surgery...have it done by a specialist.

Entropian can cause irritation to the eye itself. Scratches, etc. So check it out before you do the surgery.

 

[Ivoryudx]

It all depends on how severe the Entropion is and does your boy have allergies? If the lid is rolled in far enough that the lash will scratch his eye, then of course get the surgery. If its just a little irritating and it can be controled with over the counter eye cleaner/ointment then its an optional surgery.

In rescue we've been seeing this more and more. We've had a couple dogs that we opted not to do the surgery after we used eye meds to clear up infection, and found that the inflamation was so small it did not bother the dog. If the dog has some minor allergies, it could possibly effect the inflamation but we have not seen this. Other dogs we have had no doubt, as their eyes were so irritated and uncomfortable it was very obvious they needed surgery.

As far as it changing his look, that all depends on how good the surgeon is. We've had some come out with much droopier eyes, and others looked awesome. So if your Vet is good at doing the tiny stitches needed, and is careful, your boy shouldn't look any different. If he does to much, then his eyes could be a little loose. They all look bad right after surgery as they shave the hair near the eye.

HTH,

 

[YorkvilleNewfie]

What Meg said. Definitely what Meg said. Plus what Donna said. If the surgery is even necessary I would want a specialist going in there, not a "General Practicioner".

 

[Erika]

yep second guess him!!!!!! can you see one of the regular vets? Sometimes new guys like to make a name $$$$$$$ for them selves.

 

[twright1231]

Ty had goopy eyes last year, one more so than the other. I thought it was alergies, he was often rubbing them. Our vet sent us to the eye specialist, who diagnosed entropion, one eye worse than the other. She wanted to tack them immediately, and provide me with drops to heal them, then return in 2-3 weeks for the surgury. $2500. I opted to try the antibiotic ointment she hesitantly offered instead. I was not prepared to go home with a 140 lb. boy in a cone that day, and needed to think this through with Mike. I think she thought I was a bad mom. :shrug:

Irritation was gone within 2 days, and we continued the ointment daily, then every other, then a couple times a week for the next month.

He's had no trouble since. I still have some and will request another tube to have on hand when we go back to our regular vet for the annual stuff.

One thing she mentioned was that the irritation needs to be completely healed up before doing the surgery since the shape of the eye and lid are different when flared up, and thus might change how she would approach the repair.

Also, these were Ty's lower lids. We watch him closely now and he's doing well.

 

[Windancer]

Did I understand you to say it was the 'upper' lid? I have only heard of it being the lower lid.....I would go with the ointment to rule out summer allergies causing inflamation...

 

[ward_hill]

Thanks, everyone ...

Allergies haven't been an issue with him generally, except possibly the eye goop, which doesn't appear to be a seasonal thing. His diet agrees with him and he's been on it since he began eating food. In three years, we've had only one major and one small episode with hot spots, both of which had a clear cause that wasn't allergies. I should probably just take him to a specialist anyway -- I'm assuming Red Bank has someone good. (If anyone has a recommendation for anyone there, pls PM.) Then, if ointment does the trick, as in twright's case, all the better. But I want to make sure that no damage is occurring, scratching of the eye, etc. Do they have to sedate for a canine eye exam? Or, should I say, for a Newf eye exam?

Erika, yes, the pecuniary aspect of the vet's suggestion crossed my mind as well. He is new there, having come from a local kennel/vet practice. It seemed like he was the one who seeing patients this morning. They tend to do scheduled surgeries in the early morning, so I'm assuming the doc Buckley usually sees was doing that. I'm certainly going to have his regular one do the neutering. I've been happy with this practice so far for routine care. And they also did a great job putting a few sutures on Buckley's nose after a puppyhood mishap! Also, as Meg points out, this (youngish) doc may not be especially familiar with Newf particulars.

Windancer, there's always the possibility that I goofed up and he did say and show me the lower lid. I always have to bring my wife with me for my own important medical appts., otherwise I'd leave with only the vaguest notion of what the doctor said. :shuffle:

As ever, it's great to have help from all the great folks here on the NN!

 

[Pipelineozzy]

I've seen more entropion in upper lids actually, with ectropion being more common in lower. I've seen dogs with BOTH...entropic in the upper and ectropic in the lower! (Working in a vet practice, and it occurs in many breeds.) I don't know how old your boy is, but one thing I would be certain of is that his head is mature before you decide on surgery if the problem is marginal. Unless the hair is ulcerating the eye itself, it's important to wait till the head is mature because it could change. If he's mature and he is getting irritation..then yes, get a second opinion, and get it fixed. And although I wouldn't neccessarily insist on a specialist, I would make sure the vet had lots of experience in the surgery.

 

[twright1231]

Do they have to sedate for a canine eye exam? Or, should I say, for a Newf eye exam?

No sedation during Ty's exam, it was all me. His eye was so irritated he wouldn't let anyone close to touching him. I had to pin him to the wall. I was drenched with sweat when we finally finished 45 minutes later. Such a good boy though

 

[ward_hill]

No sedation during Ty's exam, it was all me. His eye was so irritated he wouldn't let anyone close to touching him. I had to pin him to the wall. I was drenched with sweat when we finally finished 45 minutes later. Such a good boy though

Awww. Good boy, Ty!

I'll make sure to eat my Wheaties when we go!