Puppy not loving strangers

[OodlesOfNoodles]

Hi all!

We just brought our new puppy, Finnegan, home on Dec. 8th, so I realize he's still adjusting and settling in, being thrust into a very new environment. He's not doing too badly with potty training - usually no accidents during the day, however we have had a couple of pooping in crate incidents over night, even though he'd just been out - he's only 9 weeks, so not a big deal (although, let me tell you, I already miss my sleep haha).

My question is this - we live in a big city so he will be interacting with many, many different people throughout his life. He's bonded really well with me and my husband so far, but is stand-offish to everyone else. He's not too bad with my mother in law, who lives with us, although he doesn't seem very comfortable going up to her and letting her pet him. Also, strangers who are out when we go out for potty breaks want to pet him, and he wants nothing to do with them. He actively backs away, trying to hide behind me and has even let out a small growl sometimes (once when he was on the ground and another time I was holding him because there was another dog there). Even if the people have a treat in their hands, he's very reluctant to take it, and usually doesn't let them pet him afterwards. Is this something we should be concerned about? And how do we fix it?? I know it's still early days, but I suppose I expected a puppy to just love getting some loving from whoever would give it :icon_knuddel: He's not skittish in other respects - we've got a lot of loud noises around and he'll sit and take them in, and usually keep on walking without seeming too perturbed. It's just when others want to pet him that he seems very shy and nervous. Any help/thoughts are much appreciated!

And because I know they're loved - I hope this picture works!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/397123_10101052320014540_53392608_n.jpg

 

[Brandie&Maggie]

First of all, welcome! You'll get lots of good info here.

I'm not an expert and I'm sure some of the more experienced puppy parents will weigh in here, but it seems the rule of having strangers ignore the pup works well. Let your little guy get comfortable and approach people when he's ready. I know it's hard for strangers as those little fuzzy guys are soo irresistible, but if he's nervous it won't turn out well. I'm sure some training and socialization in a structured environment would help a lot too.

Did your breeder make sure to handle the puppies a lot? Have you asked your breeder about this behavior? It seems like you got him at about 8 weeks, and most around here recommend waiting until 10 weeks, so maybe he just didn't get a lot of exposure to strangers at the breeder?

Again, I'm sure some of more experienced folks will chime in.

Good luck! (And thanks for the puppy belly photo!)

 

[AubreyMo]

Congrats on the new puppy! That belly shot kills me. I can kind of weigh in here because my Moose (now 8 months) was the same way as your pup when he was that age. He is very submissive, to the point of being shy. I wanted him to go up and greet everyone, and he wasn't having it, forcing him didn't do either of us any good because it continued on and he got to the point that he'd bark at something that scared him, before turning tail and running.

My trainer taught me that the most important part is working on your bond. Your pup needs to know you're there to PROTECT him. So she taught me to stand in front of Moose and whatever was scaring him, or remove him from the situation if he couldn't calm down (then once he is calm, bring him back into it and try to make it a positive experience). Be sure to show your dog that you aren't afraid too. I spent a lot of time talking to strangers while Moose cowered behind my legs, just so he could get used to people talking and being around him and his owner, and learn that it's okay. He eventually learned that if I trust strangers, he can too - and now he's the FIRST one to go greet someone. Your pup will get there, he just needs to gain a little confidence and get experience. Keep taking him out in short bursts so he gets used to being around other people and dogs, ask people not to pet him if he's seeming anxious, and he'll learn that YOU control the situation and he has nothing to fear. And you'll notice more as your pup gets older, he'll tell you when he's done greeting people. Moose will happily go up to anyone now, but when he's tired of all the attention he'll give someone a quick newfie "hello" look, let them pat his head and then he turns away, and goes back behind me - and that's our cue to head home.

Feel free to PM me anything if you have other questions, Moose definitely is a shy guy and we've had to work through some interesting situations so I'm happy to offer any help that I can! I know there's many more experienced newf owners on here who can give you some solid advice as well. And remember, no question is dumb on here. We're all happy to help everyone else as best as we can. Good luck, can't wait to see your little guy grow! What's his name?

 

[cmorgan.1505]

We had a lot of people over about a month after getting Thor and it has helped him a lot. Thor LOVES people, but after a few pets he is done. haha (Just like me..well kinda) Thor would get under my legs when a new person came up and I had to let him know it was ok to meet this person. He will get better as he gets older, but make sure to take him out and about to meet people.

 

[OodlesOfNoodles]

Thanks everyone! We're starting to arrange people to come over and to go to houses for visits, so hopefully that will help. We're also having my MIL hand feed him one of his meals, so he starts seeing her as a provider as well - we started it at dinner tonight and he was already way more visibly friendly towards her when she came to pet him later.

Brandie - yes, the breeder handled him a lot. The puppies live in her house and she's been with them constantly, cuddling and playing with them. Now that I think about it, he was a little stand offish with us when we went up for our first visit, but after us sitting on the floor playing with his brother, he came over and was set. Thanks for the memory jog - I'll have to make sure when friends come over they act that same way!

Aubrey - his registered name is Finnegan, but we call him Finn. I'm really glad to hear you had a similar situation and that Moose is doing so well now! I was worried that if I continued to let him hide behind me, it would reaffirm that he had something to be scared of, but your trainer's advice about showing him that I'm happy to spend time with the strangers, so he'll feel the same way too eventually, makes sense. Around what age did he begin to get better with it?

cmorgan - I'm getting the puppy party planning started now, thanks! My guy's the same way about limited cuddles - he loves the belly rubs for a few minutes, then heads off to the corner in front of the door where it's coolest and plops down, shooting glares if we try and get him to keep playing haha.

 

[Whybu1]

Having visiting people get down to floor level often helps also. Towering over the puppy they may appear threatening.

 

[AubreyMo]

Aubrey - his registered name is Finnegan, but we call him Finn. I'm really glad to hear you had a similar situation and that Moose is doing so well now! I was worried that if I continued to let him hide behind me, it would reaffirm that he had something to be scared of, but your trainer's advice about showing him that I'm happy to spend time with the strangers, so he'll feel the same way too eventually, makes sense. Around what age did he begin to get better with it?

Aww, little Finn. Love it, such a good name. Yea, it seemed backwards to me at the time (because I didn't want to make him MORE afraid of it by stepping between) but it really worked! I'd stay calm and step between, show him I'm okay with whatever it is, and he'd usually warm right up. Whybu1's advice about having people get to eye level is good too.

With other dogs I kind of fed him to the sharks and took him to a socialization class where the other dogs forced him out of his shell, I figured another dog is better at teaching him to interact with them than I was. He goes regularly now, and we also go sit in on the puppy classes at Petsmart to meet a variety of dogs.

He really showed improvement quickly, I'd say within the first few weeks I felt comfortable that I could take him somewhere and he'd enjoy it and people could enjoy HIM too - but I made sure I took him to Petsmart, parks, and anywhere else I could think of at least 2 times a week, and stayed until he gave me the "okay mom, I'm done now". Sometimes it was 5 minutes, sometimes it was a few hours. A trainer friend gave me a guide goal of meeting 100 dogs and 100 people before your dog is 4 months old...seems like he met 500 people though. They have a saying, "you never go anywhere for 'just five minutes' with a Newf!"

You'll notice a switch as he gets bigger, he'll start protecting you rather than the other way around. Last night on our walk we were approaching some strangers and Moose stood between them and me until I told him it was okay, and then he happily let them pet him. Just stick with it, keep taking him out and monitoring him, and you'll do great! He will really start to blossom these next few weeks

 

[Sierra Newfs]

To begin, congratulations on Finnegan. The photo of him is adorable! It's wonderful that not only have you recognized he's not comfortable, but you are looking at ways to help him. Has he been seen by your vet? I mention this since when we brought our first Newf puppy home we stopped by to see our vet for a meet and greet and left with medication for her ear infection we had no idea she had. She was certainly happier about strangers handling her once that was cleared up. Have you enrolled Finnegan in a puppy class yet? If not, finding a knowledgeable trainer (not always easy!) is the place to start. Feedback from someone who can see the behavior in person and offer coaching is pretty invaluable.

As supplemental information to a trainer, Grisha Stewart has a DVD called Give Your Puppy a Choice - Modern Socialization and Behavior Training that is wonderful and I highly recommend it. There is a preview clip at: http://youtu.be/Drce_QeM4Xk and the beginning sequence with Penny the Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever is a good example of introducing a puppy to people (in the DVD Grisha shows how to get to that step with puppies that aren't there yet). It can be ordered from http://www.tawzerdog.com/ or http://www.dogwise.com. If you want more information on behavior and thresholds, Grisha is the creator of BAT (Behavior Adjustment Training) and has a website at: http://functionalrewards.com/ . The BAT Basics handout has great illustrations on the last two pages which may help to visualize thresholds and how to know if your dog is under threshold or not: http://functionalrewards.com/BAT-basics.pdf .

Other pieces of information you may find useful are Eileen's post, Does Your Dog REALLY Want to be Petted?, which includes a great video at: http://eileenanddogs.com/2012/08/29/does-your-dog-really-want-to-be-petted/ Great illustrations of body language in the videos. Also John Ciribassi, DVM, DACVB has a video on "Can we let dogs say "no"? at http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.co...Article/detail/795164?contextCategoryId=45677

I'd say most people find it awkward to thwart the advances of well meaning folks who show an interest in your dog, I certainly do! When a polite "no thank you" doesn't suffice either try explaining you're actively training or even say that your dog has a contagious skin issue. Body blocks are another option to stop those who are intent regardless of what you say. Being a good advocate for your dog and being polite aren't always synonymous unfortunately.

Please let me know if I can clarify anything I've written. Best wishes for you and your husband with your new boy. Finn is very fortunate to have a family that listens to him! Take lots and lots of photos and enjoy him immensely!

 

[Lkorzen]

UHM...your supposed to post a warning before any "puppy belly shots!" Absolutely adorable!!! Congrats on the new baby!!!!

My little lady is 15 weeks old so I know what you means when you talk about your lack of sleep! Be strong though, it only lasts a little while before you know it you;ll be sleeping through the night again.

Honestly, don't be too worried about him being shy with strangers right now, the most important thing is for him to bond to you and your husband. He needs to know that you love and protect him above all else. Getting comfortable with others will come in the next few weeks. My little one was very shy at first but we took her out with us to stores that would allow dogs...tractor supply, pet stores and to the park. As long as he continually has good experiences with people and other dogs he will find his way out of his little shell.

Congrats again on your new baby!!! He is awesome!

 

[shellyk]

Sierra Newfs mentioned the DVD by Grisha Stewart. Our puppy is lucky enought to go to puppy kindegarten at Ahimsa Dog Training in Seattle owned by Grisha Stewart. It is an awesome dog training facility! If you are in Western Canada it is worth the drive down. They have a Bravery Boost Seminar that you could attend. You can check them out at ahimsadogtraining.com. :allg069:

 

[OodlesOfNoodles]

To begin, congratulations on Finnegan. The photo of him is adorable! It's wonderful that not only have you recognized he's not comfortable, but you are looking at ways to help him. Has he been seen by your vet? I mention this since when we brought our first Newf puppy home we stopped by to see our vet for a meet and greet and left with medication for her ear infection we had no idea she had. She was certainly happier about strangers handling her once that was cleared up. Have you enrolled Finnegan in a puppy class yet? If not, finding a knowledgeable trainer (not always easy!) is the place to start. Feedback from someone who can see the behavior in person and offer coaching is pretty invaluable.

As supplemental information to a trainer, Grisha Stewart has a DVD called Give Your Puppy a Choice - Modern Socialization and Behavior Training that is wonderful and I highly recommend it. There is a preview clip at: http://youtu.be/Drce_QeM4Xk and the beginning sequence with Penny the Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever is a good example of introducing a puppy to people (in the DVD Grisha shows how to get to that step with puppies that aren't there yet). It can be ordered from http://www.tawzerdog.com/ or http://www.dogwise.com. If you want more information on behavior and thresholds, Grisha is the creator of BAT (Behavior Adjustment Training) and has a website at: http://functionalrewards.com/ . The BAT Basics handout has great illustrations on the last two pages which may help to visualize thresholds and how to know if your dog is under threshold or not: http://functionalrewards.com/BAT-basics.pdf .

Other pieces of information you may find useful are Eileen's post, Does Your Dog REALLY Want to be Petted?, which includes a great video at: http://eileenanddogs.com/2012/08/29/does-your-dog-really-want-to-be-petted/ Great illustrations of body language in the videos. Also John Ciribassi, DVM, DACVB has a video on "Can we let dogs say "no"? at http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.co...Article/detail/795164?contextCategoryId=45677

I'd say most people find it awkward to thwart the advances of well meaning folks who show an interest in your dog, I certainly do! When a polite "no thank you" doesn't suffice either try explaining you're actively training or even say that your dog has a contagious skin issue. Body blocks are another option to stop those who are intent regardless of what you say. Being a good advocate for your dog and being polite aren't always synonymous unfortunately.

Thank you for the links, I'll look into them for sure! People have actually been pretty understanding when I say he's being shy right now and likely won't want to be petted, so that's a relief!

 

[OodlesOfNoodles]

Sierra Newfs mentioned the DVD by Grisha Stewart. Our puppy is lucky enought to go to puppy kindegarten at Ahimsa Dog Training in Seattle owned by Grisha Stewart. It is an awesome dog training facility! If you are in Western Canada it is worth the drive down. They have a Bravery Boost Seminar that you could attend. You can check them out at ahimsadogtraining.com. :allg069:

I'm in Toronto unfortunately, otherwise we'd be there in a heartbeat! There's a training school just across the road from me though, where Ian Dunbar is listed as being on staff, so I'm hoping they'll have some good suggestions as well. We've got him registered already to start in January, once he;s had his 12 week shots.

 

[NinaA]

First, congrats. Second, welcome. Third, always remember that your puppy will be a puppy for a long, long time. Years. So, you must be patient. You've only had him for a short time. If you listen to all the experience here on NN he will grow up to be well socialized and a wonderful part of your family. But, they don't come that way. It does take a lot of work. We'll get you through it.

 

[lacey9875]

First, congrats. Second, welcome. Third, always remember that your puppy will be a puppy for a long, long time. Years. So, you must be patient. You've only had him for a short time. If you listen to all the experience here on NN he will grow up to be well socialized and a wonderful part of your family. But, they don't come that way. It does take a lot of work. We'll get you through it.

Yep. My puppy is currently 2.5 years old! And for what it's worth, when she first arrived we were convinced she hated us and wanted to go back "home." Now, I'm pretty sure if she could crawl into my pockets and go everywhere with me, she would. They love you deeply and hard.

 

[Ginny]

Sounds as though the pup was 8 wks. when you got him, which, unfortunately, is too young for Newfs to leave the mother and littermates. They learn a ton from them. A reputable breeder won't allow theirs to leave until they've had their hearts screened by a board certified cardiologist at about 10 wks. of age for deadly SAS. A moot point now.

You're going to have to spend a ton of time socializing him, but you'll have to be really careful where you take him. You can't assume that his vaccinations have taken effect until after he's around 16 wks. so keep him away from places dogs frequent. If he'll only let strangers give him treats and not touch him, then fine. Let it be that way until he becomes more comfortable. Don't push him. Dogs that you trust not to be carrying any viruses, can be brought to your place so he gets used to other canines. After 16wks., really hit all kinds of socializing situations hard.

 

[AngusMcDubhsMom]

Excellent advice from Ginny and everyone else too. Traveler was also the most reticent in his litter and I watched carefully because I didn't want him to be fearful. NOT ANY MORE! LOL At 9 months he's a love bug and approachable to most everyone, although I do notice he tends to scope things out a bit before interacting, but not much.
{also found last week he is "afraid" of shiny Christmas wrap... he was barking ferociously at some paper I had left down. I had to "introduce" him, so he'd stop running away from it.:!rolling:

 

[OodlesOfNoodles]

Thanks for the advice all! We've started going to a street corner and sitting on the ground with him and just watching people and cars going by so he becomes accustomed to the hustle and bustle; he's made progress already, going up to a few people and also letting everyone in the vet's office today give him a treat and a pet. Proud of him.