Poop talk

[OodlesOfNoodles]

Hi all,

Finn is 13 weeks and having a diarrhea problem. He had it a little before in December, but pumpkin for a day got him back on track. He's now had it pretty consistently since Jan 5th (with the exception of the 6th, where it got a bit better). It tends to be an overnight thing - needing us to take him out every hour and a half to two hours, with a few accidents in the crate if we don't get to him in time. He then tends to have no bowel movement of any kind from around 8am until 6pm, at which point he has one movement that's usually mushy, but then the diarrhea returns. His energy levels have been normal up until yesterday afternoon when we got back from the vet when he started sleeping more than normal. His appetite is great - he wants more food than we're giving him actually. He's got constant access to water (except overnight) and is drinking fine, and is being very cuddly as well. We took him to the vet yesterday and the vet said everything seemed normal after the exam; said that most of the time it's just something they ate that isn't agreeing with them, but he is doing a fecal just in case. We're waiting to hear back from that. He gave us a week's supply of Tylosin, which he said is an anti-inflamatory for his large intestine, and told us to feed 2 of his 3 daily meals a bland, easily digestible canned dog food for the next 2 days (can't remember the name off-hand), with his other meal being his normal kibble.

We're really vigilant with taking things out of his mouth when he picks them up outside (leaves are his favourite, followed by sticks). There's been no change in his food from what we've been giving him since we got him, and he's getting no extra treats since Christmas, when the tummy troubles started. He made it around 5 hours over night last night without needing to go, but had to go out urgently again a few times this morning. He's currently curled up in a ball by the front door sleeping (and me thinking he looks miserable).

Has anyone experienced this with their puppy?? Any suggestions of what we should do?

Thanks for your help!

 

[ElvisTheNewf]

What type of food is he eating - brand/flavor/amount?

 

[OodlesOfNoodles]

Sorry, should have said that - he's on Nature's Domain Salmon and Sweet Potato, and was getting 3 cups a day, spread out over 3 meals (around 8am, 12:30pm and 6-6:30pm).

Edited to add - he's also getting FortiFlora probiotic in the morning, along with some pumpkin

 

[DAWNMERIE]

Could be numerous different things but first place to start is a fecal to rule out those issues. I assume they are sending it out to a lab instead of an in-house?

13 weeks is young, is this the food the breeder sent him home on or you changed?
Even though he's wanting more food you could cut back a little. What time are you feeding his last meal?

Zeke had epic issues and that is putting it lightly! It's a lot of trial and error if it's food related.

 

[charlieinnj]

Well, the first thing to do is to see what comes back in the test results. He could have giardia.

If everything comes back fine....My suggestion would be to watch this video and follow Dr. Becker's advice......I've followed her advice and it works every time. She recommends a 50/50% mixture of boiled/rinsed lean ground turkey and pumpkin.

How long have you had Finn and is this the food that the breeder had them on?

 

[Capri]

My suggestion would be to change him back to the food he was eating at the breeder's, or a similar food. It sounds like the food you are giving him now isn't suitable for him.

 

[victoria1140]

could be food related , Max had camplobacter as a puppy for ages and we found it by the fecal sample.

best wishs

 

[Brandie&Maggie]

As others said, rule out parasites, etc from the fecal sample. The next step is to look at the food. The advice in the video is great. Works for us as well. The bland diet to rest the stomach is key. Also, check with your breeder on the kibble. She will likely have other recommendations.

 

[OodlesOfNoodles]

Thanks for everyone's responses. Heard back from the vet and the fecal was negative (it was sent off-site), so we're on to figuring out what he's been eating that's not agreeing with him. We're doing the bland diet and had a great stool this afternoon, the 1st one all week, so we potentially have progress! When we re-introduce him to kibble, we'll stick with the one he's currently on (breeder is ok with it), and only give him that, absolutely nothing else, to see if that's the cause. If so, we'll definitely investigate a new kibble to try. His energy levels are back up to normal now as well, which is a blessing and a curse for trying to get some work done haha.

We've had Finn for just over a month now (I know 8 1/2 weeks is earlier than many on here like to see, but it's a bit of a moot point now ) and he's been on this food since and has done well. We live in the city and it snowed right around the time his issues first started, so one of our thoughts is that he's eating some of the mass amounts of salt people put down on the sidewalks while he eats snow; so we're being the unfair parents and not letting him put anything in his mouth while out (which is no easy task haha). Thanks for the video, it was very informative!

 

[shellyk]

I feel for you! We went through this with our Lab when he was younger. The important thing we learned was that we had to make sure the Vet did a "fecal float" test. This test is the best for finding parasites like Giardia. If Finn does have a parasite, the meds can be hard on the puppy's gut. Our vet prescribed "Proviable" to naturally restablish intestinal health. It really worked for us. Our Lab was on plain rice and boiled chicken for a week before he could go back to kibble. He didn't mind - I think he liked it better. Good luck.

 

[chumleysma]

If Finn had well formed stools on his original food, I'd go back to that. That would be nice and easy if that would fix the problem. It's good you ruled out ova and parasites. If the diarrhea continues you could ask for a stool culture to rule out salmonella, shigella, or campylobacter(all can cause really foul smelling stool). It sounds like your vet ruled out parvovirus or you'd have a really, really sick pup with the worst foul smelling diarrhea. I'd check for blood, mucus/fat, and undigested pills or food and report that to the vet. Vaccinations are assumed. My vet has used metronidazole and Tylosin for diarrhea when all else was ruled out (except brand of food), and it worked great. Just a side note: Tylosin powder is approved for large animal use, but not small. Small animal vets use it off-label as an antibiotic/ anti-inflammatory because it works. You can purchase it from amazon without a prescription (cheaper than the vet plus extra for future use), but run it by your vet if you think you need it. I have some I purchased from Amazon, but it expired before using it again so I didn't really save $. Here's the link of customer reviews to show what other people have to go through. Good luck with Finn!
http://www.amazon.com/Tylan-Soluble-Powder-100-gram/dp/B00061MQIC

 

[NinaA]

Ask the vet about the FortiFlora. Ours did not want Moonlight to have it on a regular basis. Can't remember why.

 

[OodlesOfNoodles]

Diarrhea is back, even on the bland diet and Tylosin. Sigh. We're heading back to the vet today to talk strategy, as he's more lethargic than usual, plus developed a lot more discharge from one eye (no idea if it's related, just listing things at this point I think haha).

NinaA - thanks, I'll ask him. The vet is the one that gave us the FortiFlora, but we'll double check usage when we're in today

 

[DAWNMERIE]

At this point I'd skip a meal. I know it's a horrible thought but may be just the thing to put his system back into check. And I would also think about doing another fecal, sometimes they don't always catch things on the first shot.

 

[OodlesOfNoodles]

At this point I'd skip a meal. I know it's a horrible thought but may be just the thing to put his system back into check. And I would also think about doing another fecal, sometimes they don't always catch things on the first shot.

Thanks, I think we may skip his dinner - he won't be happy about that one

He has conjunctivitis in his one eye, so poor little guy isn't in tip top shape.
His temperature is still normal and he's gained a pound of weight almost in the last 3 days, so there are positive signs. We're off the tylosin now as he wasn't responding to it and got a blood panel done as a precaution. He'd been in for his puppy boosters Jan 2nd and had a fecal done then as well, so the vet recommended not doing another one at this point as that would be 3 (with multiple samples each time) done in less than 2 weeks and he felt it was unlikely to find anything new right now. Fasting and bland diet are on the menu for us for now!

 

[chumleysma]

Could you ask the vet for an antibiotic just to see if it helps the eye and gut simultaneously? If it continues, I too would ask for another stool for ova and parasite, much can get missed if it's an inexperienced vet tech reading. A good way to get a second opinion is to take the fecal to another lab or better yet, a lab that uses centrigugation to float the eggs/parasites. Studies show this method has much better results. I just read 2 puppies yesterday (using centrifugation instead of the simple 10 min. float method) that had no more than 2 coccidia (Isospora canis oocysts) in their entire fecal specimen. They are so tiny (giardia cysts are even smaller) that they are easily missed amongst all the "junk" of the specimen. The one pup had just one and his diarrhea was watery which makes it harder to find since the specimen was diluted and they rarely give you enough to begin with. Coccidia can survive the basic puppy deworming which requires special medicine. I see so many positive puppy O&Ps, I'm always pleasantly surprised when it's a negative.
You could also ask for a simple saline/fecal direct smear (very cheap) to look for things not seen in the O&P: RBCs, WBCs, abnormal bacteria, yeast overgrowth (should have been found in O&P) and Trichomonas. Ask too if there might be a need to check for C.diff. (Clostridium difficile).
A food allergy or underlying disease such as pancreatic insufficiency (always hungry w/ weight loss) or irritable bowel could also cause continual/sporadic diarrhea. There are just so many causes it's overwhelming. Sorry so long, but just want you to have ideas if it continues.

 

[OodlesOfNoodles]

Could you ask the vet for an antibiotic just to see if it helps the eye and gut simultaneously? If it continues, I too would ask for another stool for ova and parasite, much can get missed if it's an inexperienced vet tech reading. A good way to get a second opinion is to take the fecal to another lab or better yet, a lab that uses centrigugation to float the eggs/parasites. Studies show this method has much better results. I just read 2 puppies yesterday (using centrifugation instead of the simple 10 min. float method) that had no more than 2 coccidia (Isospora canis oocysts) in their entire fecal specimen. They are so tiny (giardia cysts are even smaller) that they are easily missed amongst all the "junk" of the specimen. The one pup had just one and his diarrhea was watery which makes it harder to find since the specimen was diluted and they rarely give you enough to begin with. Coccidia can survive the basic puppy deworming which requires special medicine. I see so many positive puppy O&Ps, I'm always pleasantly surprised when it's a negative.
You could also ask for a simple saline/fecal direct smear (very cheap) to look for things not seen in the O&P: RBCs, WBCs, abnormal bacteria, yeast overgrowth (should have been found in O&P) and Trichomonas. Ask too if there might be a need to check for C.diff. (Clostridium difficile).
A food allergy or underlying disease such as pancreatic insufficiency (always hungry w/ weight loss) or irritable bowel could also cause continual/sporadic diarrhea. There are just so many causes it's overwhelming. Sorry so long, but just want you to have ideas if it continues.

Thank you for that, it's very helpful! As the Tylosin wasn't showing any effect, the vet put him on Flagyl (spelling?) for the tummy, and we have an eye drop/gel for the eye. As the Flagyl would be the medication for giardi anyways, we're hoping it should do the trick. So far so good this morning

 

[Brandie&Maggie]

Sorry you are dealing with this. Hopefully the Flagyl will help. I went through months of tummy problems with Maggie. Eventually we narrowed it down to food intolerances.

Make sure you keep him on the bland diet for a while too. When you start him back on the kibble, do it very gradually. If the diarrhea comes back with the kibble, you'll know that is possibly the cause of your trouble. Some dogs just don't tolerate certain proteins (chicken, etc).

FYI, if he has trouble going after being on the Flagyl, you can mix a little bit of canned pumpkin (not pie mix) into his food. Maggie always has trouble going for a few days after that.

Hope he's feeling better soon!