Noahs Cove! ATTN::::::

[sarnewfie]

Fantastic photos! i moved this here becouse of the conversation and that page is taking a bit to load for my fossile, no offense intended plus i have more to say.
want to pick your brains.
first off, that scenery makes me want to move to alaska even more! how fantastic, the only thing is the darkness, i need the sun.
even in wisconsin the short days really bother me, i function with the sun! LOL
what a handsome hubby to go along with such beautiful dogs.
ok i am in agreement with you that everything is important, but....
here is what i have concentrated on, of course temperament, i have heard so many say landseer are agressive, my gosh, i have yet to meet an aggresive landseer. i do believe that the bad owners who encourage wrong behavior to be at blame, so temperament and movement/structure.
but when it comes to the "pattern"
how do you breed for that?
i am finding that my last litter with morgan and Ch ralees Winddancer had unusual clear white with barely any ticking in probably 4 or 5 of the 7 pups.
now how could we have predicted that? the good ole ticking gene seems to pop up when it pleases and when we dont expect it.
and than the pattern.
it is so hard to get that perfect saddle along with everything else perfect plus with the standard saying the blaze is preferred but the judges mostly place all black heads.
so what can you tell me about that and is there someone you know who could help me.
My heart belongs to the landseer.
i also agree, the working end is more interesting but the conformation end balances out ONLY if the dogs are not in jeopardy.
i see so many AWFUL HORRID fronts and WEAK rears on some of these dogs, in my opinion the newf is at the bottom as far as it can go as far as the lower states go with structure.
my preference and goal is to put out more fantastic moving newfs as Winddancer does, he is the most impressive clear moving gaiting reach and drive that i have seen yet.
so......
can you help me on this and no worry the length of your post i am intrigued by what you have to say

 

[sarnewfie]

Karen
you are not butting in!
and i have done two landseer to landseer, and have less ticking than a pup out of a black landseer recessive and landseer, so dont know if the next generation or the following will show it, but my opinion from talking to others is that it is a crap shoot.

 

[ROM Newf]

SAR said: it is so hard to get that perfect saddle along with everything else perfect plus with the standard saying the blaze is preferred but the judges mostly place all black heads.

SAR,
What standard are you reading? The AKC (NCA) standard says "Typically, the head is solid black, or black with white on the muzzle, with or without a blaze." It says nothing about preferred head marking (blaze vs solid). It also says "Markings on either Solid Colors or Landseers, might deviate considerably from those described and should be penalized only to the extent of the deviation." "Beauty of markings should be considered only when comparing dogs of otherwise comparable quality and never at the expense of type, structure and soundness."

Ticking does seem to be a crap shoot. From the same (Landseer to Landseer) litters we've had clear coats with no ticking and moderately ticked coats. One long time Landseer breeder believes that breeding Landseer to black increases the chances and amount of ticking.
Linda

 

[sarnewfie]

Linda
ooops,
mistake, i thought i had read that the blaze was the preferred marking on the head, i have an old NCA book from way back and i may have misunderstood the writing and meaning, thanx for that, than i wont worry about the blaze.
some were saying that the pups i have now, a few with nice blaze, it may be heavy for white right now, but in looking to the skin it will turn into a nice blaze not overdone, they said that those will have a harder time finishing becouse it takes away from the face.
i dont think so, but.... one never knows.
i am glad you shared with me, anyone who can i am open to reading what they have to say on this.
i also noted that the landseer to landseer is clearer and had suspected that the blacks bring more ticking in, but that is just "suspected" maybe it is the individual lines bringing just the right combo into the breeding that it may just be coincidental?

 

[ROM Newf]

We have found that the blazes do narrow up quite a bit. I've got a picture of one puppy that had the widest blaze when young- went from the inside corner of one eye to the inside corner of the other eye. It narrowed up nicely.
The blaze and white muzzle do create optical illusions. It makes the head look narrower than it really is but if the dog's conformation is good, it can be easily finished. One trick my daughter has done while in the ring is to draw the judge's attention to the head. Put the hand on the muzzle to show width, depth, length and then move the hand to the skull to show width, top skull, back skull,etc. The judge, in many cases, will come back and put his/her hand on the dog's head again to check that it really is correct and in proportion with the rest of the dog. (Of course, the dog's head has to be correct to do this little technique otherwise you're emphasizing something you'd rather not have the judge notice.) We finished 1 with a white muzzle (no blaze)- well, it looked more gray than white because of the heavy ticking on the muzzle. Of the other Landseers we've finished, one had a solid black head, 2 had mostly black heads (with just a triangle of white over the nose), 2 had white muzzles and blazes (and one of these finished at a regional specialty show). Another hasn't finished but she has the white muzzle and blaze and placed 4th in the aoac class at this past National.
We have found that markings don't matter much either. While we try to get correct markings, genetics doesn't always follow through. The ones who have finished have run the gamet from correct markings to no break between saddle and rump patches to no saddle and/or rump patches.
Linda

 

[sarnewfie]

ROM
thanx!
i appreciate that, i am having a hard time in my area, the judges that the clubs are picking hardly look at the landseer, so it is time for us to bite the bullet and do some traveling.
it is pretty obvious when i have it on tape, that when even on entering the ring, plus on the down and back the judge is looking at the blacks with his back to the landseer, or on the down and back looking around at the spectators.
sad.
we are planning on attending the national next year in delavin wisconsin, hubby is going to come with, i would like to show penny but am fearful becouse she is heavily ticked, she has an unbroken saddle, and her blaze is only on the muzzle it does not go up between the eyes. but all the pups are marked nice from her.
she could use a bit more bone, otherwise she has great reach and drive and is put together very nicely.
so for now it is sydney that will show, i dont know if morgan will be holding together yet by than, we will see, she will be 6 years old.
but i was surprised when hubby said he wanted to come with!

 

[sarnewfie]

Karen
normally they start to show on my guys around the 4 week mark and continue on thru, but a way i found to find the little boogers is to put your finger against the lay of the hair, brush up and any black spots you see on his leg are sure to develop black hair as he matures.

 

[NoahsCove]

hi "sar"!!

Oooops!!! Sorry for the delayed response....i didn't see your post until just now (i should've scrolled down).

thanks a bunch on your nice comments about alaska! it really is a beautiful place and perfect newfie weather! as robin (rob and robin from alaska) had mentioned, we here in southeast alaska actually live in a coastal rainforest (along with glacial fjords etc...) so it makes for a beautiful combination. it hasn't snowed here yet and is mostly still very green (leaves and fields have changed colors but our lawn still has mostly green blades etc...). mountain tops have snow on them in this area.....but, we can still walk by the sea on a sandy beach quite comfortably. average temp now is around 43 degrees Fahrenheit during the day.

farther up north the winter months can mean total darkness for several months...then as you progress south you get a little bit more daylight during the winter. here in juneau we will still see daylight for awhile everyday for awhile each day. But, during the summer months the "midnight sun" comes out (far up north sun won't set for a few months) and then as you progress south you'll see a wee bit of darkness each evening during summer months but since people generally sleep at night, for the most part it seems like sunlight 24 hours a day it's awesome!! and gardening is phenomenal as plants grow super big due to the influx of all the sunlight. ofcourse, that also means you have to mow the lawn every few days too fortunately my hubby usually mows the lawn (i'll tell him about your nice compliment....i bet he'll blush!

Ref: your questions....i think you have some GREAT questions!!! i have to say, though, that i've never bred a litter of pups and you probably know more about canine genetics than i do. i just know what i like, and i did some research into some pedigrees/lines and asked lots of questions and then i carefully selected my furbabies. i based my selection on many factors and i'm happy with the choices i made

i have to say that i think you're very smart to place emphasis on temperament and movement and overall soundness!!

i believe ticking is from a recessive gene. and, some breeders feel it's ok to breed landseerXlandseer and have produced champions from such matings.....other breeders freak out at the thought of breeding 2 landseers. i think a compromise between the two within a line is what some people may choose. for example, if a landseer has parents that are both landseers...and possibly a grandparent(s) as a landseer then it's probably a good idea to breed back to a black at that point for type. again, though, i'm not an expert so i'm happy to see others posting to this thread as well!!

thanks for your great questions....but, most of all, thanks for your thoughtfulnees regarding your breeding program!! that's wonderful to see!

 

[sarnewfie]

On the other token some breeders treat the landseer like it is a disease, to the point of avoiding them at a show and giving them the widest birth when walking around them like their dog will catch some disease or something *grin*
anyway, i talked to hubby he doesnt believe that you guys dont get colder in the winter, what is your low temp?
and to bad more people dont research the way you did.
it is neat to see that.

 

[ROM Newf]

But if they knew that the top winning Newf show kennel in this country has co-owned Landseers with a longtime Landseer breeder, they'd change their tune.

 

[louienewf]

I loved this conversation

We are hoping to add to our newf family late next spring and we are really hoping to get a Landseer. What the heck is the blaze and does this only occur on their face ??? And is it important, as far as markings, that he or she has the "saddle" ?? We will love the Newf no matter what but it is great to learn this stuff. You're all filled with great info.. Thanks, Judy

 

[ROM Newf]

Hi Judy,
The blaze is white that is on the face- going (typically) up between the eyes and onto the top of the head. (Think horse or Saint Bernard with the white on the face and the rest being a different color) A blaze is only on the face.
The Newf standard says you can have a blaze or not have a blaze on the face. Most Landseers will have the saddle but not all- or they'll have a partial saddle or there will be no break between the saddle and the rump patch. The standard says "Landseer-White base coat with black markings. Typically, the head is solid black, or black with white on the muzzle, with or without a blaze. There is a separate black saddle and black on the rump extending onto a white tail. Markings, on either Solid Colors or Landseers might deviate considerably from those described and should be penalized (in the show ring) only to the extent of the deviation. Clear white or white with minimal ticking is preferred. Beauty of markings should be considered only when comparing dogs of otherwise comparable quality and never at the expense of type, structure and soundness."
So, in a nutshell, go with temperament, health, type, structure and soundness before worrying about markings.
Linda

 

[brendapiepiorka]

By the discription of what a landseers markings should be, Lancelot looks to fit the bill. Will ticking show up later or is that a trait from puppy hood? His all white legs and tail and that black head...oh he is just adorable! I could see me with one

 

[ROM Newf]

Ticking will start (especially on the feet) by the time they are 5-8 weeks old. Body and/or leg ticking is usually there by 3-4 mos old but can show up a little later. The skin where the ticking is or is going to be is usually dark while the skin where the white is will be pink.
Linda