It's happening again

brownnewf

New member
Hi everybody, I have been lurking around here lately and not posting the last few months, but I need some advice from the experts.
About a year ago I posted about the boys having their first fight. (I have 2 intact males, who are intact because we show them) The fights went on for about 2 months and then with some great advice from some of you here and from some trainers the fights stopped.
Well, they started again last week and I am baffled to say the least.
The first fight last year was in October, now I am trying to figure out why almost to the exact date it is starting again.
I only have 2 thoughts:
1. The cooler weather. They have more energy.
2. Somewhere there is a bitch in heat.

Our rountine has not changed, our training has not changed.

Sherman seems to be the agressor, which is the way it was before.
I already had bloodwork done again to check everything and all was normal. Again.

I am at a loss.
 

newfam

New member
I have two intact males... one is 2 and the other is 20 mths. The air has cooled off a lot around here and the wrestling has definitely picked up. Are you 100% sure it is fighting or just really rough play? Not that either is good I was just wondering. My first thought is that they have more energy and are have really good wrestle matches, and they sound worse than it actually is. Is Sherman more of the active one of the two?
 

twright1231

New member
Our two, both intact males, have picked up the rougher play recently as well. I also get a bit concerned at times at how rough it can get. Some days it seems they cannot wait to get at each other. When they are alone together during quiet time, they are calm. When I show up, the energy level increases. It almost seems like they are competing for me. I am also not sure what to make of it.
 

brownnewf

New member
It is defintley not rough play.
Yesterday Sherman totally unleashed on Leroy and Sherman is usually the layed back one.
However, Sherman is the one who now has bite wounds not Leroy.

Don't get me wrong they have their fair share of rough playing, which is usually iniatated by Leroy and Sherman will give a warning growl and that is it.
Yesterday they were sitting right next to other and I turned my back for 1/2 a second to get their food bowls and Sherman went nuts on Leroy. The fight last for about 2 minutes, which may not seem long but it was, I would say food agression but last week when their was a different issue it was no where around feeding time and no food was involved.
 
I have to wonder if it is the moon. Snuffles has been a bit on the aggressive side or aggressive playful side to other male dogs at the dog park recently, and all dogs are altered there. On leash he is fine, but when off, the spell wants to take over.

I dropped Snuffles off at his kin folks this past Saturday so I could go to northern IL. Now as many times as we have been to Karen's (luvxlk9), I have NEVER seen a real fight. Though I did not see the start from what Karen said, Cole attacked Beau as Beau was trying to get over the fence from the horse pasture back to the yard. Both these dogs are intact. Karen was getting them seperated and then for what ever reason Apache (altered) got in on it and was all over Beau. Somewhere in all that is when I came out fo the barn because of all the noise. I had to man handle Apache to get him off of Beau. Glad Snuffles did not get in on it. He just kept a few feet away and barked. Beau ended up with some minor scarps/blood to the ear flaps and a bunch of drool on his head. After that everone was buds again. You have to wonder what triggers it all.
 

hawk

New member
I wonder if it might be related to vying for position in the pack. Aren't "fights" somewhat normal in canine social behavior?
 

BluwaterNewfs

New member
Intact males do have a tendency to fight especially if there is a bitch in season around. While you may not have a bitch inseason, there may be one inthe area thast you don't know about. You may need to keep them separated. This is why many breeder don't keep more than 1 male or keep no males at all.
 

Cascadians

New member
Last night I took Orka for a neighborhood walk. He's 9 months old (almost 10 months) and intact. He was perfectly behaved and calm. On the way back all of a sudden I see a family up ahead holding an unleashed dog, so I crossed the street. But the man said, "We've been waiting for you, please come here" so we went over to them.

Orka went berserk. I had no idea how strong he is! Turns out this family had a Newf before and wanted to pet Orka, but, idiots, their dog was in heat! !!! Well now I know how it affects him: all training poof, no more brains, 100% brute male insane dog. Very difficult to get him home and then he was extremely restless. And then totally meek and moody and apologetic since 2/a.

*sigh* Between the once-in-20-years Harvest Full Moon exactly on the Fall Equinox, the female in heat, and all the activity at the school across the street thing are a challenge here. The slightly cooler weather definitely = spunkier.
 

Angela

Super Moderator
I would guess there may be a bitch in season in your neighbourhood.
I have 2 intact males also, one just 7 yrs and one 6 yrs next month and have not had any fighting issues (touch wood!!) ever.
 

Ivoryudx

New member
I wonder if it might be related to vying for position in the pack. Aren't "fights" somewhat normal in canine social behavior?
Yes, BUT, in normal canine packs, the dogs are not made to live with one another. A natural pack changes, dogs come and go. Those that do not get along do not live together in the wild, they leave.

When we bring dogs into our home, we expect them to get along, because we tend to put our thoughts/values on them. Sort of like someone telling us that another individual will be living with us and we just have to get over it. We have no say so and no matter what, we can't leave.

Please note, I'm not saying things can't be worked out between these dogs. I'm just pointing out that the situation of two dogs living together forever, who don't like one another, isn't the natural way of pack behavior.
 
Last edited:

NewfieMama

New member
Last night I took Orka for a neighborhood walk. He's 9 months old (almost 10 months) and intact. He was perfectly behaved and calm. On the way back all of a sudden I see a family up ahead holding an unleashed dog, so I crossed the street. But the man said, "We've been waiting for you, please come here" so we went over to them.

Orka went berserk. I had no idea how strong he is! Turns out this family had a Newf before and wanted to pet Orka, but, idiots, their dog was in heat! !!! Well now I know how it affects him: all training poof, no more brains, 100% brute male insane dog. Very difficult to get him home and then he was extremely restless. And then totally meek and moody and apologetic since 2/a.

*sigh* Between the once-in-20-years Harvest Full Moon exactly on the Fall Equinox, the female in heat, and all the activity at the school across the street thing are a challenge here. The slightly cooler weather definitely = spunkier.
:shocker: They had a bitch in heat, off leash? It'll be a miracle if they don't expect puppies soon!
 

new_2_newf

New member
I once had idiot neighbors toss their intact male over the fence into my yard while their bitch was in heat so both dogs could be outside...this was without any consultaiton with me, and Sulley was outside. Luckly, so was I and got my hands on the new dog before Sulley got his teeth on him. It would have been bad. There were many, many, many expletives used when I returned the dog. I was hoppin'.
 

brownnewf

New member
As always, your input is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

It's hard to explain.

I have 2 intact males that both have different personalities, but for 10 months out of the year they can coexist together without any issues.
They nap next to each other, they eat next to each other, they walk next to each other, they play with each other...etc.
But for 2 months out of the year something sets them off.
 

victoria1140

Active member
definetly sounds like a female related issue somewhere then . good luck with keeping them calm, perhaps a bit of rescue remedy might help,

either that or block their noses up so they cant smell (eau de skunk perhaps):D:D:D
 

luvxl k 9

New member
definetly sounds like a female related issue somewhere then . good luck with keeping them calm, perhaps a bit of rescue remedy might help,

either that or block their noses up so they cant smell (eau de skunk perhaps):D:D:D
I use vicks vapor rub on Beau's nose at the shows so he can't smell and go all h...ny on me. LOL:shocker:
 

R Taft

Active member
I wonder if it might be related to vying for position in the pack. Aren't "fights" somewhat normal in canine social behavior?
Yes and how we react can also make a fight get worse.....you need to establish pack order and leadership again. you might have relaxed or there is a bitch nearby.

A fault a lot of people make with fights is to have sympathy/kindness for the lower dog. I know this sounds tough and a bit off, but remember, I have had a lot of aggressive issues in my household. And I am now heavily into studying dog behavior. When Annabelle picks on Tessa, which still happens because Tessa gets pushy, We tell Tessa off. We say Tessa "no", "leave it" and "off". We call Annabelle and only say "behind", which will put her in Heel and do some work. Annabelle is top dog and we only control her not tell her off. tessa is second and we reprimand her. This is why we have been able to have these two cowy bitches live together in peace.......Many people told us it would not happen and they would have to be crated and kept separate, but we took Alpha role, we allow Annabelle to be the dog in charge and reprimand Tessa.
Now you have to observe your pack, even if it is only two and if the hierarchy chances you have to chance with it. Katy may one day become our top dog and we will have to allow this.
I have learned so much in the past few years of owning Annabelle and doing my course and training with the Rottweiler Rescue trainer. He has a pack on his property, which changes due to different dogs coming and going and he has no savage fights only squabbles.
You should be able to keep your full males, but you have to be tough........Tough love :) Ronnie
 

newfam

New member
Ronnie--Okay I have a question, does it really matter how you treat the hierarchy if you are the alpah? The only reason I am asking is I really don't have a clear one in front of another, although I have hunches that Typhoon is emerging as the one over Tsunami. Neither have a major dominant nature so I am kinda going with I am in charge I can do things how I want to.. although if they get overambitious they get equal reprimand and "punishment" I really don't treat one over the other... am I setting myself up for a blindside? I am more observant than Eric is so I notice things that he doesn't but I don't want to be suddenly stuck in the middle of a mess :)
 

R Taft

Active member
Ronnie--Okay I have a question, does it really matter how you treat the hierarchy if you are the alpah? The only reason I am asking is I really don't have a clear one in front of another, although I have hunches that Typhoon is emerging as the one over Tsunami. Neither have a major dominant nature so I am kinda going with I am in charge I can do things how I want to.. although if they get overambitious they get equal reprimand and "punishment" I really don't treat one over the other... am I setting myself up for a blindside? I am more observant than Eric is so I notice things that he doesn't but I don't want to be suddenly stuck in the middle of a mess :)
Because you had your two from pups, you might be lucky enough to have a pair who are not interested in their own pecking order and just accept you as the alpha ...Yours are also neutered? that makes a great difference. You will find that some people will actually tell you that bitches are often worse than the boys. hence the lovely term "bitch" in the human world :)
Annabelle and Tessa were both adults when they met....AS are most rescue dogs.
Hormones however can make a great difference. I would keep it in mind for even in the future if things change. Some dogs also have a better character and nothing happens. Annabelle and Tessa are both cranky's. Katy is our sweety....
 

brownnewf

New member
definetly sounds like a female related issue somewhere then . good luck with keeping them calm, perhaps a bit of rescue remedy might help,
-the rescue remedy part

I never thought of that! Thank you!

Ronnie-
Thank you for your response I am continuously trying to learn more about pack leadership and the tips you gave are great.
It is diificult because Sherman is the laid back one and Leroy is more of the goofy newfy, but Sherman seeems to be the agressor at this point.

This time around I am standing strong, because I just will not tolerate this in my home and go through what I went through last year.
 
Top