Grey colored newfoundlands

[baileydog]

"No one wanted him because his tail didn't fully develop and he couldn't be shown or bred - Does that mean he should have been put down rather than live a full and happy life with people that love him??"


If this statement is true- it should give you some insight to the kind of breeder he came from? Those that are breeding for the right purposes place puppies in pet homes, even with faults, such as an undeveloped tail or mirad of other faults.

It is wonderful that he did enter rescue and is in a wonderful home, and I think I can offer some insight to this thread.

Last weekend I was called by the local shelter to pick up a Newf they had just got in. It was a landseer male, 20 months old, from a byb located within ten miles of me. I have met this person face to face and his discussion with me was " Why don't you have any browns, landseers, or greys? If you breed those colors together you get the "off" colors, and those are where the money is, people will pay more for the creams, grey&whites, and brown&whites, not to mention the solid "off" colors as well". The gentleman had taken the landseer to the pound himself and left him as he had medical issues that he didn't want to put any money into.

For many breeders the experiences with the off colors, have not always been good ones and thus why we become defensive when talking about grey&white, brown&white, and Creams. Puppy mills and dollar sign breeders have found a new "nitch" in the puppy market, the "off" colors, and market them for thier uniqueness. IMO- it is harder to find a grey or brown that is from a quality breeder, there are some out there, but they are not the norm.

I am not referring to anyone's breeder on here, just insight from my personal experiences, but wanted to share one of the many cases/experiences that form our thoughts about those that breed simply for color, and there are those out there.

 

[YorkvilleNewfie]

Henry may not be perfect by AKC standards (few if any are) but he's perfect for you and no less a Newfie because he's a non-standard color. Really, you can stand proud as a Newf owner, anyone who has a rescue can give themselves a big hurrah.

I happen to think he is unique and has a sweet face. Don't let anyone make you feel your dog is substandard. You love him and he loves you and that is what matters.

I concur. My girl has droopy lower lids and does not have a show-worthy gait. She's perfect though and I love her none the less.

I also happen to like Henry's rump. Very cute!

 

[Tula]

Interesting thread. I've got three rescue newfs and an 11 week pup we purchased from a great breeder. I love them all Kim

 

[cedarvalleynewfoundlands]

I honestly don't think anyone is putting your dog down or any individual dog for that matter. To me, this is about breeding practices and their outcomes.

Exactly....I personally happen to absolutely adore the brown and whites....I think they are absolutely beautiful. BUT, they are not recognized, so I am not about to breed for them.
I would never say ANY Newf is looked down upon because they are an "off" color. What concerns me is when breeders list them as "rare" trying to capitalize on what is actually a bad breeding practice. There is nothing "rare" about them....all you would need to do is use Landseers and browns and greys together, and you'd eventually get brown and white, grey and white, cream etc. If reputable breeders suddenly chose to breed Landseers and browns, browns and greys and grey and Landseer together, all of those "rare" colors would suddenly become very common .

 

[Capri]

Exactly....I personally happen to absolutely adore the brown and whites....I think they are absolutely beautiful. BUT, they are not recognized, so I am not about to breed for them.
I would never say ANY Newf is looked down upon because they are an "off" color. What concerns me is when breeders list them as "rare" trying to capitalize on what is actually a bad breeding practice. There is nothing "rare" about them....all you would need to do is use Landseers and browns and greys together, and you'd eventually get brown and white, grey and white, cream etc. If reputable breeders suddenly chose to breed Landseers and browns, browns and greys and grey and Landseer together, all of those "rare" colors would suddenly become very common .

The whole post is so true and well written .
Just made me laugh because I've always said that if brown & whites were ever to be recognized as an official colour, we would start breeding them in an instant. Just LOVE the colour !

 

[ardeagold]

No one wanted him because his tail didn't fully develop and he couldn't be shown or bred - Does that mean he should have been put down rather than live a full and happy life with people that love him??

I understand what problems may come along with recessive genes, but to look down on a dog because of it's color just seems wrong to me.

Did anyone here or anywhere give the impression that they think or thought he should have been put down? If anyone here said or implied anything of the sort, I must have missed it. The people here love all Newfs (and all dogs), from what I've seen, and nobody I know has ever even hinted at putting one down because it doesn't meet the breed standard, or for any other reason. Instead, they take them into their homes, love and care for them for the rest of their lives. They champion FOR the dogs ... no matter what they look like. How they feel about the breeders, on the other hand, is often a different story.

Grey Newfs are acceptable under the standard here in the US. People may PREFER other colors, but that, to me would be the same thing as preferring chocolate over vanilla (which I do, BTW). And that's what I was referring to in the show ring as well. It's hard to completely overcome one's own preferences....no matter how objective one tries be. However, if one wishes to become a judge, then they need to make every effort to choose the "best dog", regardless of their preference of one color over another.

Oh and just to clarify my feelings for you...we have two rescue Newfs, neither even close to the breed standard, and many rescue "other dogs". Of our dogs, one is blind from birth, and one is deaf. We've had both since they were tiny puppies, and no, we never considered putting them down because in some people's eyes they're "defective". And we've never gotten "rid" of a dog, for any reason.

In fact, living with the difference in those that do and those that don't meet the breed standard has clarified our understanding of the reason FOR that standard. It doesn't mean that we love, care for or treat one differently than the other or that one is "better" than the other, but it does mean that we can see and appreciate good breeding.

I, for one, am very happy that there IS a breed standard and that there are quality breeders out there that make every effort to abide by it.

A breeder who's willing to "throw away" a pup just because it doesn't meet the color for the standard doesn't speak well of that breeder, IMO. Did you get him from rescue because the breeder turned him over?

 

[Pipelineozzy]

We don't "look down" on them in Canada either...but just avoid producing them if you are trying to breed to the standard.And nobody puts them "down"...they are simply sold with the understanding that they cannot ever be shown or bred.

 

[baloobear2]

Grey newfs

I was told about a breeder that did put down their gray puppies, I was hoping it wasn't true! We had a choice between three black ones and Baloo being all black except his white chest, and a female gray one. I'm glad that there are homes for the ones that don't meet standard and I think that is all anyone here means is standard vs non standard--If a breeder does there homework and is experienced the chances sound like they become very slim for the other colors to be expressed, however given that were the humans we are I believe it's always going to happen, I doubt they will be able to keep that from happening but through education like newf net it might be less When it does I'm glad there are people like NN that adopt or rescue,have bought them to love them up like the beauties they are!!

**By the way Hank the Tank is gorgeous and has a very mystic look to his eyes Also I'm excited for Pupppy love to get your new newf it sounds so beautiful Garden girl: Your newfy GORGEOUS! Bailey is so pretty too!!

This was a very educational thread thank you

 

[Lkorzen]

We have a 15 weeks old gray baby girl named Madison...all I can say about her is that she is AWESOME!!! She is smart, confident, sweet and a bit sassy. She pretty much rocks~!

I also wanted to write because after reading through this thread again, I am confused. I have been working with my breeder for almost three years now. I have been with her through the birth and whelping of about 10-12 liters. She is a very reputable breeder and I am trying to learn all I can from her, as it is my dream t become a breeder. In her last litter she had two grays a boy and a girl and 6 blacks.

She gave me the little gray girl to begin my kennel!?! Assuming that all of her preliminary's and OFA are good I hope to breed this little grey girl to one of her Black males (not landseer recessive and not gray recessive). She gave me Madison on a co-ownership. But now I am reading that grays should be sold without rights to breed.

I am confused???

 

[Angela]

You might be confused by Cindy's post.
In Canada the only colours recognised for conformation and therefore breeding are Black, and Landseer. So, breeders in Canada tend to avoid getting Greys.
In the U.S as Ardeagold has said that colour is acceptable, as are browns.

 

[YorkvilleNewfie]

I for one love the greys! In fact, after meeting an 8 month old grey pup at Newfiepalooza, my husband and I have decided that our next Newf may in fact be a grey. They're just gorgeous!

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

I also wanted to write because after reading through this thread again, I am confused. I have been working with my breeder for almost three years now. I have been with her through the birth and whelping of about 25 liters. She is a very reputable breeder and I am trying to learn all I can from her, as it is my dream t become a breeder. In her last litter she had two grays a boy and a girl and 6 blacks.

She gave me the little gray girl to begin my kennel!?! Assuming that all of her preliminary's and OFA are good I hope to breed this little grey girl to one of her Black males (not landseer recessive and not gray recessive). She gave me Madison on a co-ownership. But now I am reading that grays should be sold without rights to breed.

I am confused???

It is unusual to start your kennel with your foundation bitch as a gray. Are you planning on showing your girl and does your breeder show? Most show breeders try to avoid the grays. But if you breed her to a black that is not gray recessive, you will get black pups. But the pups will be gray recessive. Therefore any future breedings, you will have to make sure the sire is all black, if you don't want grays in the litter.

 

[Lkorzen]

Yes, I think you are right. Thanks for clearing that up.

I am hoping to show Madison, actually my son will be showing her. We are hoping to find a few fun matches in the area first.

My breeder actually tends to stay away from Grays too! In 25 years of breeding she has only had 3 gray pups and two of those were from her last litter (Maddi being one of them). My breeder really likes how Maddi is put together and we are really hoping that she will pass all the OFA's.

I do want you to know that if something happens and we can't breed her, she will still be loved and adored and will always be our little gray girl.

 

[baloobear2]

next newf

I for one love the greys! In fact, after meeting an 8 month old grey pup at Newfiepalooza, my husband and I have decided that our next Newf may in fact be a grey. They're just gorgeous!

Yes Yes, they are so very beautiful--we have the same feelings

 

[Henrys Mom]

Our breeder produces greys occasionally. There was one grey boy in Henry's litter 9 years ago and there was a grey boy in Mason's litter. They were counting on the grey boy in Mason's litter to be a show dog. They have shown a grey before. He went to a family that is going to show him for sure. He was so cute and my entire family fell in love with him, but we decided on a black instead. We are not planning on showing Mason, but if he grows up to look like a show puppy we might let the breeder show him. Our breeder is very reputable and very active in the local and national Newf clubs. Both parents, Henry's and Mason's are from totally different. The males are from 2 different kennels. The females are owned by the breeder and I'm not sure if they are related or not.

 

[sarnewfie]

Unusual but ultimatly her choice. Who says it is wrong?
I started my foundation with a landseer and an I.S. No one was going to tell me i was wrong. I would not hear of it. Having been in this breed for over 10 years working in Conf. Obedience, Training in water, and working in SAR i learned for my own taste Working in my opinion was far more important to me and my guys.
Grey and brown are genes in our breed like it or not. It is time to get with the times and accept them as equals. There are just as many issues in blacks as there are any other color. Great danes and cockers have accepted all colors now it is time for us to also go that route.

 

[Pipelineozzy]

Quote:
(I also wanted to write because after reading through this thread again, I am confused. I have been working with my breeder for almost three years now. I have been with her through the birth and whelping of about 25 liters. She is a very reputable breeder and I am trying to learn all I can from her, as it is my dream t become a breeder. In her last litter she had two grays a boy and a girl and 6 blacks.)

25 litters in 3 years? Wowzer.

 

[KatieB]

I thought the same thing Cindy....that's a LOT of litters.

 

[cedarvalleynewfoundlands]

I thought the same thing Cindy....that's a LOT of litters.

I thought that too. We' be been breeding for 11 years and haven't produced even 20 litters.

 

[janices]

Quote:
(I also wanted to write because after reading through this thread again, I am confused. I have been working with my breeder for almost three years now. I have been with her through the birth and whelping of about 25 liters. She is a very reputable breeder and I am trying to learn all I can from her, as it is my dream t become a breeder. In her last litter she had two grays a boy and a girl and 6 blacks.)

25 litters in 3 years? Wowzer.

Unfortunately, I think this got mistyped. Know the breeder.