Future Newfie owner

[Jksess]

Hey just a little back story I've fell in love with newfies when I was 10 and have wanted one since. Now that I'm married and settled down and building my family I would like to add newfies to my life as well and I'm in the position where I have space for a Newfie I'm starting to look for one, I love the Browns and grays....well and the champagns which I know aren't what most people want but if its healthy for the dog I just really like their look as well......even knowing it's not one of the standard Colors for the breed.
We recently lost our setter who was 12 years old and he left behind a very heartbroken and lonely 4 year old munster lander. Which prompted me to start my search for a Newfie. When I had looked in pervious years I could find them for around $800 boy has the dog market changed! I was shocked to find "mutts" going for $400-600. I was somewhat shocked, the newfies in my area are probably right on track around $1200-1500 but still I was surprised after not looking for so long. I'm realising that it will take more time for me to set that money aside but while that happens I figured that I would continue to research and learn.
So a couple questions are is that the pretty standard price?. They are rare in my area so it does make finding one I love harder I live in the western United States near idaho.
Does champagne coloring make health problems more likely? Getting one that was breed with health in mind is very important to me.
What is the cost to feed a Newfie I've read conflicting info on that....is it similar to labs or other large breeds? Like my setter or munsterlander?
I just want to make sure when I'm blessed with the opportunity to add a wonderful Newfie to my family I'm as prepared as I can be.
Ps I know about the hair, grooming, drool, crazy love of water which is great as my munster lander loves water as well and has her own pool, and we have land that boarders a river that is tree lined that we go on walks by at least weekly.

 

[victoria1140]

Food costs aren't extortionate though depends on any allergies, insurance is the one must have as things get expensive fast.

have you contacted rescue, it's not always fast but they don't stay pups for long and there are some great news needing homes. Also see if there are any regional clubs near you that may be able to help.

 

[Jksess]

Yeah I'm prepared for vet bills just was surprised by the initial price after not looking for so long.
Yes I have contacted rescue and I'm still looking that way
I would like to have a newf who I could have a litter of pups with as I love puppies and so do my kids, I'm not talking going crazy and breeding a dog down I think that's horrible when it happens to dogs, it's so hard on them, but I would love the opportunity to raise a litter or two of newfs!
I'm not in a terrible hurry but would love to figure out how to get one fairly soon as my rue ( my munsterlander) is so lonely without a dog companion.

Victoria11400 if that's a picture of your Newfie in your profile it's a gorgeous dog!

 

[Jeannie]

It will be hard to find a reputable breeder who will sell you a pu with the intentions of breeding because you "love puppies". There is a lot of expense when you breed properly: health clearances, showing to see if your dog meets the standard, plus the cost of breeding. You also take a chance of losing your bitch. Many things can go wrong. I heard of a breeder whose bitch a problem and it cost her over $6000 to save her bitch. They were able to save 2 puppies.

Newfs are an expensive breed. The initial cost is a lot but not when you compare the cost to own a newf over the years. After your newf gets through the teen age stage they don't eat very much. My Chase gets 2-3 cups per day.

 

[BlackLightning]

Unfortunately, your estimate of $1500 for initial purchase price is low. I'd say on average a Newf puppy from a responsible breeder will be closer to $2000-$2500. You are also talking about getting a dog on full registration (breeding rights) and that is not going to be easy.... I don't know any reputable breeders that are selling pups on full registration except to other established Newf breeders or to show homes. Personally, if this were me and it were my first Newf ever I'd throw away any ideas of breeding my first Newf and just learn, take it all in and enjoy my Newf as a pet. Then if I were really serious about breeding I'd take all I'd learned from the first Newf and start getting really involved in the breed (dog shows, working events, seminars, building up relationships with breeders). I would just never recommend starting out with the intentions to breed my first-ever dog of that breed... and you will be seriously hard-pressed to find anyone willing to give you a breeding dog. And if they *are* willing to hand over a fully registered dog with little concern then you've picked a crappy breeder.

 

[Jksess]

Thanks for the information and advice. I guess I didn't make it a point to say how rural of an area I live in. Clubs and shows are literally hours of driving away ....like 8-10 hours each way.. if it sounded like I was complaining about the initial cost I'm not but after having 2 dogs so I wasnt looking at adopting a Newfie the price has gone up considerably since I last looked so I was unprepared to see that. I could pay it now but honestly thought it would be around $800 as that's what I had seen them for in previous years when I had chanced to see them....but this is years ago. I'm not uneducated in breeding and also I live on a farm and have my whole life so birth and complications and helping with that was always a part of life. Also I have a good friend who is a vet and neighbor so I understand that breeding isn't just puppies and sunshine....so please don't think I'm just some person seeing fluffy pups and thinking oh fun I know they are a lot of work and time to raise them right and take care of mom.

 

[Jksess]

Also knowing I will likely have to buy online and won't be able to show my newf is why I said getting a pup bred with health as a main consideration in mind is a big priority. And why I asked is champagns color that had more health problems I had heard that they could. I know they aren't the desirable color for the breed and Im not planning on breeding for that necessarily just saw some puppies with that coloring I like and know it's not a more rare and valuable color.....I guess I'm probably not necessarily what people on this forum will think of as an acceptable breeder since showing and things along that line aren't something I will have time or the opportunity to do. But the dogs will be loved as a member of the family and as members of the family will be properly cared for....which is why I joined this forum is to continue to learn more about the breed..even though I have read many many things on the breed.
I guess what I'm saying in short is I want the breed for what theyve been breed as not for perfect looks and show dogs but as the a gentle loving dog who can be my companion and a loving member of my family. But I do appreciate the advice given.

 

[Jeannie]

So you say you want to breed and raise them right. You want to be a responsible breeder and not be what is known as a back yard breeder. To do so are you willing to get health clearances for your dog before breeding? They need to be certified hips, elbows, patellas, SAS, thyroid and Cystinuria. These tests are not cheap and most cannot be done correctly by a general veterinarian. SAS must be by a cardiologist. There are a few labs in the US where you can get thyroid certification. The dog must be at least 2 years old to be certified with hips, patellas and elbows. If not done correctly your dog will not have a true certifications. Positioning is very important. Bad positioning can make a dog with excellent hips look like good or poor hips.

Are you willing to have all the puppy's hearts checked by a cardiologist at 10 weeks of age for SAS? Every puppy should be checked. The is nothing more heart breaking than to get a newf and find out the heart is bad and the dog could die just from playing. The newf you purchase should have a 10 week heart check. The check should not be done at a younger age since most innocent murmurs won't be closed before 10 week of age. This also means that you will be raising the pups until they are at least 10 weeks old.

Your newf needs to be shown to be sure your dog meets the breed standard. There is no way to tell unless you show your dog. There are many breeders who travel for hours to show their dogs. There are many in the Pacific NW.

Are you willing to be responsible for the puppies all their life? Are you going to have a contract that says the owner is not allowed to give the dog away or sell it if they cannot keep it. The dog must come back to you? Are you willing to accept a dog back after 10 years? I know many breeders who do and have.

I agree you should get a newf and enjoy him/her as a pet. Then if you still want to breed find a breeder who can be a mentor.

One thing I noticed in your original post is (if I read it correctly) You said browns and grays are not one of the standard colors for newfs. That is not true. Newfs can be black, brown, gray or Landseer (white with black marking). Keep doing your research. A puppy from a responsible breeder will cost 2000-3000 dollars. Many times there is a waiting list. Check into rescue also. There are many newfs who need a good home.

 

[Jksess]

One thing I noticed in your original post is (if I read it correctly) You said browns and grays are not one of the standard colors for newfs. That is not true. Newfs can be black, brown, gray or Landseer (white with black marking). Keep doing your research. A puppy from a responsible breeder will cost 2000-3000 dollars. Many times there is a waiting list. Check into rescue also. There are many newfs who need a good home.

Nope I know Browns and grays are standard Colors along with landseers and blacks but champagns which I happen to like the look of is not a standard and When showing Is not a very desirable color in all the articles I read.
Which is the color I was referring to. Just wanted to know if there was health issues involved with the color.
Also I would never let puppies go to new family till they are around 10 weeks, I've had setter pups and kept them till that age plus ask to keep in contact with the new families and was willing to take them back if things didn't work out. They were vet checked and had shots before going to new family's with info on them and their parents and a bag of original food that was sent with directions how to start mixing new food to ease transitions.
I'm starting to think that no matter what I say here I will not be liked for having said I would love to have a couple litters of pups...even saying a vet would be involved and I have a lot of experience breeding animals.....I'm not a puppy miller and yes I guess I would be a backyard breeder as I had no intentions of having more than a couple litters. Which I guess I see nothing wrong with as I was prepared for the vet checks and things along that line, but I'm guessing most people on here will still have problems with my plans. I get that a lot of what you are talking about is available to many people but with a young family I guess traveling hours for showing and cardiologist isn't something realistic for me. I care about my animals and would do the testing available to me. But I'm thinking this forum might not be the best fit for me. Sorry for offending people with the idea of me want to breed a newf once or twice and not planning it all exactly how you would like it.

 

[wrknnwf]

Something for you to consider and I say this with kindness, and with the hope of sparing you some grief and embarrassment ...

Champagne is not a desirable color in the breed and you will never find a responsible breeder who breeds that color intentionally, meaning that the pups you saw were probably bred without any care as to the quality of the dogs. Any responsible breeder who accidentally winds up with an undesirable color will only sell it on a limited registration, so as to not produce more undesirable colors.

And if you did get a Champagne colored Newf, you will never find a breeder of quality Newfs who will want to mate their dog with yours. The goal of a responsible breeder is to breed with the intention of adhering to the standard of the breed and improving it. And to demonstrate this goal, responsible breeders show their dogs so that an independent judge can assess their breeding program.

So bearing in mind that Newfs are scarce in your area, and that you would not be able to show your dog, your only hope would be inbreeding with dogs in the same family as your's which would then get you labeled as an irresponsible breeder regardless of your expertise in breeding animals. It's not a nice label to have.

Blacks, browns, and the white and black (Landseer) Newfs are the desirable colors for the breed. Greys are not actually a grey dog, but a dilute form of the black color which is acceptable when it happens. I doubt that anyone would intentionally breed for that color, but a grey dog that is an outstanding specimen in other ways, could be considered for breeding stock in hopes that the grey color (along with the associated genetic flaws) would be bred out by carefully selecting a mate. A lot of research would be necessary to avoid any color that is not desirable.

The grey color does appear to be linked with other genetic flaws and I'm sure the undesirable colors are, too. Any other color, although register-able in the US (but not Canada, I think) would be seen as a "mistake" to be avoided by carefully selecting breeding stock. Although the undesirable colors happen, you see it most often in puppy mills or back yard breeders who care nothing about breeding quality dogs that meet the standard or who care enough to have their dogs tested for health problems before breeding them.

Also, you would never be able to show an off-colored dog. You would most likely be excused from the ring before the judging even started and, boy I hate to say this, you would be the laughing stock and shunned by everyone at the show. Plus, the word would get around fast.

Now having said all that, if you just love the beige Newfs and don't feel guilty of perpetuating poor quality dogs by buying from an irresponsible person, then get a pup and get it fixed. All puppies on the ground, even from bad breeders, deserve a loving home. But just remember, that every time someone buys from an uncaring breeder, that breeder will turn around and produce more poor quality dogs. As long as there is a market, they keep pumping them out with no regard to the future of the breed.

And a great many of those dogs end up in shelters or breed rescue due to a number of problems, both health and temperament wise. It's unfortunate that people don't have good common sense when purchasing a dog, but just fall for the looks of a fluffy puppy. You would think they'd take at least as much time researching the breed as they do researching the next car, or TV, or whatever they want to purchase.

I apologize for being so blunt, but we really do have you and your family's best interests at heart and those of the dogs, as well. We hate to see people get hurt by making bad and usually uninformed choices.

I am thrilled, though, that you came here before you jumped in with both feet. Please hang around, read through the old threads and you will see what we're talking about. We are very happy to help you in any way, but do be prepared for honest and frank discussions.

 

[Jksess]

Yep I know that the champagne/beige color is not what the breed should be and I understand that people try to sell them as rare and more expensive. I just saw one that was a beautiful dog just not the right color. I know they would not be show quality. I think I even said I wasnt planning on breeding for that color but wanted to know about the health related to this color incase I did fall in love with one that color. Getting a healthy pup that was taken care of and bred from healthy parents is important to me.
If I did get a pup and did decide to breed if she was healthy enough in a few years then I would purchase a healthy male, the options of finding a stud are probably not realistic for my situation. So I would not inbreed.
Now I would have to get a pup probably from someone site unseen so I will be asking many many questions before purchasing as it terrifies me and I don't want to support people who just see dollar signs and don't care about much else.
I didn't mean to sound upset earlier but I'm not stupid I do understand the care and expenses of puppies and would never just breed to breed. Only healthly parents would be considered also why I want to make sure I get a pup from healthy parents. And any breeding we do would involve vets and check ups just the cardiologist seem crazy unless there are signs pointing to problems, then it's understandable. But to me having young human kids when they are born you don't take them to every specialist available unless there are signs saying you should and a regular doctor thinks their might be problems so to me all the extreme testing seems....well extreme....I might be wrong but I think a regular vet is a good place to start...and if all is clear seems like an place to stop as well....I don't mind people disagreeing but I guess our ideas of a responsible owner/breeder are very different
I'm not opposed to adoption as I've had adopted dogs before but the odds in my area are rare to say the least and its hard not knowing how responsibly they were breed and what problems that might bring.

 

[victoria1140]

I am glad you are asking questions and we will give honest answers to the best of our abilities.

We are passionate about our furkids so dont be put off.

Also even if our babies are health checked they can still get major problems.
Beau my avatar passed at 4 1/2 years old to cancer.he cost his insurance approx $16,000 in his lifetime and his pedigree was impeccable. He was and still is to this day my heart and soul boy.

Max my landseer died at 2 years old again to cancer and he had hip and elbow iissues.again good breeder but his expenses were $52,000 approx.

My two girls l have now were an accidental litter from someone l know.so far bad ears,one cruciate operation $12,000 atm.

Also my insurance costs us for three dogs $340 a month and l am so glad l have it .

So ask questions, keep looking and researching but be warned most reputable breeders wouldnt sell you a pup as you havent had this breed before and to them that raises a lot of red flags.
That doesnt mean you wouldnt be the best newfie mum in the world but they have very exacting criteria.

Also not all newfs are laid back babies, my ones have been hyper .

 

[mcme]

Welcome! I learned something new today, as I had to look up what a munsterlander was. This is a great place to get lots of information. You're right to be concerned about health. While there are never guarantees, choosing a breeder that does all the health clearances is an important place to start. I don't know a lot about breeding, but the suggestion about having a Newf for awhile and getting to know the breed before thinking about breeding makes sense to me. It sounds like your home, with the pool and river would be heaven for a Newf! Good luck finding a buddy for your munsterlander. (And now I know what that is!)

 

[Jksess]

Don't worry I'm not thinking of getting a Newfie and breeding it they next week I would have the pup/dog for a few years before even considering breeding, so I hope by then I would have a good feel about the breed if I don't I wouldn't breed. Now as to being hyper having grown up in a family where we had/have hunting breeds I can handle hyper and know that all puppies have more energy than adult dogs but I'm guessing the level of hyper is less so in a newfoundland.....some of the dogs we've had growing up would just run and run and run for hours non stop! I'm not expecting a dog that will just lay there and take no training lol it might be nice sometimes but honestly hyper is nothing new to me.
And yep munsterlanders are not a common breed and I was glad to stumble across her she is a great dog and my dad owns her brother, we've really enjoyed them they are very sweet dogs and good family dogs, but they do have a lot of go to them that's for sure.

 

[Jksess]

So a couple questions then how do you truly know if someone is a responsible breeder I mean i plan on asking lots of questions but when I look online on some puppy classified sites every single pup say health checked and health guaranteed.....

Also in these picture sI found on Google I love all colors but the color of the one on the far left in the group picture is my husbands favorite, what color should I look for as a pup? Are these ones considered grays?

 

[Angela]

In the General Section there are several Stickies which will help you find a good breeder, questions to ask, health questions to ask, and very very important Copies of OFA certificates on the parents which should include hips, elbows, heart and cystinuria.
Heart and cystinuria are very big problems in Newfs.

Cystinuria can be eliminated by testing and not breeding carriers to carriers of affected to
carrier.

Heart issues can be Sub aortic stenosis which can show up around 10 weeks and why we harp on not getting a pup before then and the breeder finding a vet cardiologist to check the litter before they go to their homes.

There are breeders in WA state and Oregon which is fairly close to you. Personally I would never buy online sight unseen. I have done a road trip to Calgary Alberta for one and WA state for 7.

 

[Ginny]

So a couple questions then how do you truly know if someone is a responsible breeder I mean i plan on asking lots of questions but when I look online on some puppy classified sites every single pup say health checked and health guaranteed.....

Yup, they'll all say that, but you have to look at what it really means. Health checked by a general vet is fine for the basic stuff, but not for hearts. Guarantees? Read them carefully.

You'll also see claims of Championship Lines...this usually means maybe one or two dogs in a multi-generation pedigree were shown to a championship. You want the majority of dogs to have earned a CH. We show, so our dogs can be compared to and judged on the Breed Standard so they look like Newfs and their conformation is correct. A well put together dog from a long line of the same, is less likely to have and throw orthopedic issues.

And any breeding we do would involve vets and check ups just the cardiologist seem crazy unless there are signs pointing to problems, then it's understandable. But to me having young human kids when they are born you don't take them to every specialist available unless there are signs saying you should and a regular doctor thinks their might be problems so to me all the extreme testing seems....well extreme...

Definitely, NOT EXTREME. SAS is an inherited progressive disease, meaning that it develops over time and there often are no signs. The later the pups are auscultated for it, the better the chance of a cardiologist picking it up. General vets can and DO miss the diagnosis. I had a pup who 2 general vets said was clear, took her to a cardiologist who heard a murmur then did an Echo Doppler and diagnosed her with SAS.

To increase our chances of sending a heart-healthy dog to its new home, the NCA suggests checking at right around 10 weeks. Unfortunately, that's not foolproof. Some dogs develop it later than that. We see pups on public forums all the time who are sent to their new homes at 8 weeks of age. That is a huge red flag that the breeder is not reputable. EVERY breeding dog needs to be cleared by a board certified cardiologist after a year of age to decrease the chances of passing it on.

Distance one must drive, should never take precedence over doing all you can to insure a pup is healthy. Pups will become family members. Imagine a child completely bonded to his Newf, only to find it dead from SAS at the age of 1 or 2 or 3... I, frankly, couldn't sleep at night, if I hadn't done all I could to avoid that kind of heartbreak.

There are other heart conditions that affect Newfs. The above mentioned pup ended up having a PDA (Patent Ductus Arteriosus), not SAS, which is condition that can be repaired via surgery. Her surgery cost me tons more than I sold her for, but she's living a good long life under a limited registration and was spayed.

Now I would have to get a pup probably from someone site unseen so I will be asking many many questions before purchasing as it terrifies me and I don't want to support people who just see dollar signs and don't care about much else. So a couple questions then how do you truly know if someone is a responsible breeder...

You just defined who NOT to go to. Anyone who sells online, without knowing the buyer isn't reputable. Oh, they'll sell you some well rehearsed answers to your numerous questions, which will make you think they're good breeders, but they're not. In the end, they're in it for the money, lack knowledge of issues behind their dogs, and won't be there when problems arise. These are the Newfs that end up in shelters or rescue with health and/or temperament issues.

I can tell you I've never broken even on any litter I've bred... Insuring that we are breeding healthy dogs bred to the breed standard so that they look like Newfs (and, yes, that involves showing) costs way more than one can imagine. Our precious Newfs deserve that level of commitment.

My advice to to drive the many hours it takes to get involved with a regional club and eventually apply for NCA membership. I, too, am very rural and isolated and have to drive long hours, but you gain a lot from being around others involved in the breed. Once people in the fancy, including breeders, get to know you and your level of commitment to the breed, your chances of getting a well-bred dog who you might be able to breed, are increased. Pairing a male with a female is much more than merely "buying a male". You need to match pedigrees and try to offset weaknesses with strengths in the mate. Expect to become involved with a mentor. My mentor had bred Newfs for over 40 years. She knows more than I can ever hope to know about the dogs in the different pedigrees. She can tell me health and temperament issues in lines so that I, hopefully, don't double up on problems. Even then, Mother Nature steps in and throws a curve ball. HEALTHY PARENTS DO NOT GUARANTEE HEALTHY OFFSPRING. This is why you need to know what's in the pedigrees - there's good and bad lurking in the genes in every line.

Newfs are fabulous dogs, but they are not for the thin-skinned. Heartache rears its ugly head far too often. This is why you are hearing what seems like complaints and blunt warnings from various people. No one wants to drive you away or be mean. We love and are very protective of our incredible breed. We want to do everything we can to keep our Newfs healthy and look like Newfs, capable of doing what they were originally bred to do. Those who are on the fringe of the fancy and breed without doing everything possible to achieve this, just simply shouldn't breed.

You sound like your heart is in the right place. Just be patient and take the time and long-term commitment necessary to bring some beautiful, healthy Newf puppies into the world for families to love.

Edited to add the italicized sentences in blue.

 

[Puppypeoplenj]

The other thing I haven't seen mentioned here is that for a dog like a Newfoundland, a poorly-bred Newf is a SAFETY ISSUE. Aside from the potential heartbreak and suffering that orthopaedic and cardiac issues can cause, temperament is a significant cause for concern. Imagine a mean, nasty, or even just fearful and nervous Newfoundland, who due to poor genetics could behave unpredictably and viciously out of fear? A poorly bred newf might not look like a Newf or act like a Newf, and with a dog as big as these are, that's a significant danger. Remember, temperament is heritable/genetic, and can't be screened for as easily as looking up the OFA screenings of a dog online. You have to know about their lines and you have to have the opinions of reputable people who know what they're talking about to truly know whether you're creating good examples of the breed or simply throwing out into the mix more puppies who could potentially cause their puppy families undescribable heartache, financial expense, and physical danger.

Sorry if this is unclear, I'm currently hopped up on pain meds... but I really care about this topic and think it would be sad for more poor examples of the breed to be thrown out into the world. Showing isn't just about looking pretty. It's also about your dog being evaluated by truly unbiased people who know what theyre talking about and form a community dedicated to keeping Newfoundlands Newfoundlands in every way, temperament and health especially.

 

[Jksess]

There are breeders in WA state and Oregon which is fairly close to you. Personally I would never buy online sight unseen. I have done a road trip to Calgary Alberta for one and WA state for 7.

OK this might be a stupid question but how would I find these breeders in oregon and Washington. Is that kind of info on this forum that I just haven't found yet? I'm not opposed to driving for a pup it just has to be realistic with me having a 2 year old son....he's great in the car but he has his limits lol

 

[Angela]

I can't share the link on my iPad but....
Google Newfoundland club of America breeder list and it will come up with a map of the U.S and you can click on Washington and Oregon and you will find several breeders who have to abide by NCA regulations.
Idaho, to my knowledge, does NOT have any reputable breeders.