Finding a good breeder

Jeannie

Super Moderator
This has been copied from the Heartland Of America Newf Club's website with permission. I am making it a sticky so everyone can be educated.


Instructions: Use this sheet to help evaluate the answers you’ve been given.

The questions which may be answered “Y/N” are phrased in a manner in which a “yes” answer is preferable. More “yes” answers increases the likelihood that the breeder is knowledgeable, experienced and cares more about the dog than the dollar. However, in some cases, a “no” answer is explainable. (e.g. see question # 4. A handicapped breeder might not be able to participate in physical activities with their dog; but, they may have handlers or co-owners who train and show the dogs for them). Always ask “why?”, if the answer is no.

Open-ended questions, which cannot be answered “Y/N”, can be weighed but are not necessarily right or wrong. They just give you a better understanding of the breeder’s caring, involvement, experience and knowledge of the breed.

To explain certain questions in more detail, see question…
# 1. Preferably, new breeders will have a mentor who is guiding their decision making and skill-building. If they seem to be new to the breed, ask who supports them in their endeavors. Of course, the number of years (few or many) breeding doesn’t mean the breeder is responsible.

# 2. One or two breeds are acceptable. Any more than that begins to indicate a probable puppy mill.

# 3. Active membership in a dog club indicates an interest in the breed and/or dog activities.

# 5. Involvement in Rescue indicates the breeder feels responsible for the breed as a whole, not just what s/he produces.

# 6. Responsible breeders breed dogs to improve the breed, not to make money.

# 7. To produce good specimens, responsible breeders will carefully plan their litters and will not breed a bitch just because she is in season.

#’s 10 & 11. The breeder should understand the standard for the breed and strive to breed dogs which meet or come close to that ideal. They should be able (and willing) to point out the strengths and weaknesses of each parent dog and how each can help the other produce better puppies.

# 12. There are NO lines of dogs without problems. Breeders who claim no problems should be avoided.

# 13. A responsible breeder breeds parents that have undergone veterinary testing for specific genetic health problems common to that breed. Familiarize yourself with the organizations listed as certifying parties to find out more about their certification process. Most have websites you can research. Health clearances issued by a regular vet are NOT acceptable. Tests on the dog must be done at certain ages to be valid. Don’t you agree that people buying a pet have just as much right to a sound healthy puppy as those buying a show pup?

# 16. At this time, the AKC and UKC are the only acceptable registries for purebred dogs in the US. AKC is preferable in the US. Each country has its own registries. Registries other than AKC or UKC, in the US, are typically used only by puppy mills. Don’t be fooled by similar sounding names or acronyms.

# 18. Titles on the parent dogs are good but the term “titles” in general can be misleading. Puppy mills and BYB’s will often advertise “championship bloodlines”. This is a meaningless term as poor quality parent dogs can have champions for grandparents; and some fine parent dogs are not champions. This question simply indicates that the breeder or owner of the parents is involved in the breed. Other working dog titles on the parents indicate the same commitment to the breed.

# 19. Constantly being pregnant is hard on any female. Dogs might be said to have an optimum breeding life. In general, a dog should not be bred until it has passed all of its health clearances. Several clearances cannot be certified until the dog is two years old. Therefore, bitches under two should not be bred. Depending on the breed, the oldest age a dog should be bred is the age before it becomes a senior. For Newfoundlands, this might be around 7 or 8 years old. Of course there are exceptions. Also See # 13. C

#20. You should certainly ask to visit the breeders kennel and then follow up. It’s not always possible to see the sire as he may be housed at another kennel. Part of your responsibility is to check the premises for cleanliness, etc. and meet, at least, the dam to see if she measures up to your idea of the breed both physically and temperamentally.

#’s 21 & 22. Never pick up a puppy before 8 – 10 weeks. Puppies are not developed emotionally or physically enough to leave their dams and siblings before that age. 10 – 12 weeks is even better. Heart clearances are not recommended before 10 weeks and responsible breeders will likely have their pups cleared before sending them on their way.

# 23 & 24. Anyone offering a puppy at one price “with papers” and a lower price “without papers” is breaking AKC rules. Money can never be connected to the registration papers. Instead, the breeder should use limited registration. Registration papers should always be available when you pick up your puppy. Offers to mail them to you later are not acceptable.

# 25. Breeders who never take advantage of limited registration simply don’t care about the future of the breed. Limited registration is offered by the AKC in an effort to prevent pet quality pups from being bred irresponsibly and passing on potential problems. Please go to the AKC website (www.akc.org) to learn more about limited registration.

# 26. It costs just as much to produce a pet quality puppy as a show quality one. Most breeders will charge the same price for either. Remember, no one can predict whether or not a puppy will actually grow up to be a show dog so they should be priced the same as pet quality pups.

# 27, 28 & 29. No contract/health guarantee…no sale. Review a copy before committing to buy. Ask questions about the health coverage and what will happen if the puppy is not healthy according to the terms. Will you have to give the pup back, or receive a refund or reimbursement for medical costs, or be given another puppy from an upcoming litter? Understand the terms and don’t buy the pup or sign if you can’t agree to abide by them.

# 31. Breeders often prefer to pick out your puppy for you. Don’t be discouraged by this. The breeder has had time to assess each pup and may make a better decision according to your personality and lifestyle.

# 32. Breeders should take time to work with the individual pups and socialize them in different environments. Puppies that spend all their time in a kennel without experiencing being in a home, meeting new people or going places will often have difficulty in their new homes. Breeders should also have a start on housebreaking for you. This is another important reason to wait until a pup is 10 weeks or better before you take him home. See #’s 21 & 22.

#’s 34, 35 & 36. A caring breeder feels responsible for the puppies s/he produces for the rest of their lives. S/he most likely will want to develop a close relationship with you and your family, whether or not it is a long distance one. The breeder may also want a home check done to be able to envision the pup’s new environment and make suggestions for its care. Although this may seem invasive, remember that you also can and should check out the breeder’s kennel.

# 37. A breeder should be willing to explain the reasoning behind turning you down. In many cases, it’s something that can be remedied. For example; s/he may require a fence in your yard but be willing to work on a solution if you don’t have one.

# 38. A breeder who quickly loses interest when you’re simply researching to buy in the future is very likely just in the business of selling dogs. A breeder who is interested in educating you and building a future relationship is more likely interested in the dogs themselves and their potential owners.

# 39. Get references from the breeder and check them. If they say they do health clearances, check them. If they say the parents are Champions, check it out. If they say they belong to a club, find out if they do. There are many, many resources available to you on the Internet and elsewhere.

# 40. Be prepared for all manner of questions from the breeder. Good breeders ask probing questions of prospective buyers to ascertain their ability to properly care for a puppy. Breeders who don’t ask lots of questions about your knowledge, home environment, dog activity interests, etc. are the breeders to avoid. Please be pleasant even if you feel you’re under fire. You are more likely to develop a mutual trust and a better relationship if you respect the breeder’s right to ask questions and
make requirements of potential puppy buyers. If you feel you’re being treated wrongly or harshly, ask why. If you can’t resolve the conflict then simply find a different breeder with whom you can build a relationship.
 

4ondafloor

New member
I think you forgot the top part that has the questions to ask a breeder Jeannie???
The thread that you closed had the original from Jane right? I think you just stickied the bottom part that "explains" the answers and why...
 

R Taft

Active member
I have always been impressed with the breeder we had chosen and still deal with. She manages her past pups forever and they are always returnable. She does not have many that return or are taken back, because the new owner contract was not kept to. She is heavily involved with rescue from everywhere in Australia and we got both our rescues from her, as our puppies.
But when you first meet her , she can be rather scary and abrupt...........It almost seems as if she challenges you to show the level of care. For our first dog we had to be vetted and get references and referees. it was a nerve wracking experience. But now later in my life and hopefully older and wiser, I can understand it all. Her price is fairly high too and that is because of all the vet care the pups receive.
I will always support the "good" breeders, who improve and promote the breed.

My second newf pup had a lot of arthritis very young............My breeder supported me and was always interested............She offered me a new pup (not even considered by me, I adored Abbey) And had both of the parent lines checked. litter mates, previous litters for the same problem. Luckily only one more young dog from the same sire/dog had the same problem and she pulled my dogs father from her breeding program and he went into retirement at a new home. To me that is responsible. And I hope that everyone who will buy a newf pup has my luck with breeders. I have since received two much adored rescues through her
Ronnie........
 
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Kodabear

New member
I sure wish I had known about Newf net before I bought my girl. She is wonderful but I did not get her papers or health guarantee in the mail even after emailing our breeder 4 or 5 times. I love Koda to death and it doesn't matter to me at this point if she is AKC registered or not. The thing that irks me is that I was promised those papers and I now have no idea about whether this breeder was credible or not. What if my beloved puppy ends up having hip dysplasia now? I would at least like to have my 2,000 dollars back. Eh what can you do. I should have done my part and done better research. I just thought that since the breeder advertised AKC she would have been credible. I guess not. I will refer to this list next time.
 

Pipelineozzy

New member
Wow...breeding to seven or eight years? I'd take exception to that, actually. Seven would be the absolute outside limit on breeding a bitch in my view. I actually would consider 6 to kind of be "the line" for a last litter except under really unusual circumstances.
Perhaps my view is tainted..I don't think I've ever had one that I bred more than 3 times. If she hasn't outproduced herself by then, chances are she isn't going to. And if she HAS outproduced herself..I have a daughter that is better than her by then :) so would opt to use the better dog.
 

sendchocolate

New member
I sure wish I had known about Newf net before I bought my girl. She is wonderful but I did not get her papers or health guarantee in the mail even after emailing our breeder 4 or 5 times. I love Koda to death and it doesn't matter to me at this point if she is AKC registered or not. The thing that irks me is that I was promised those papers and I now have no idea about whether this breeder was credible or not. What if my beloved puppy ends up having hip dysplasia now? I would at least like to have my 2,000 dollars back. Eh what can you do. I should have done my part and done better research. I just thought that since the breeder advertised AKC she would have been credible. I guess not. I will refer to this list next time.
I think I would threaten her with small claims court. Not because I didn't love and want my dog, but because it might make her think twice about doing it again to anyone else!
 

Pipelineozzy

New member
Does AKC do anything about papers? In Canada..CKC allows the breeder 6 months from date of sale to provide papers..if they haven't, you can file a complaint with them./
 

Sound Bay Newfs

Active member
What if my beloved puppy ends up having hip dysplasia now? I would at least like to have my 2,000 dollars back.

I think I would threaten her with small claims court. Not because I didn't love and want my dog, but because it might make her think twice about doing it again to anyone else!


Why would you think a pup having hip dysplasia would be the breeders fault? If she was that bad of a breeder to begin with (didn't do health testing) then why would you buy a pup from her?
Genetics is genetics and there is no predictability to it sometimes. All a breeders can do is to try to breed the best possible pups, but after that there are no guarantees. How a pup is raised (food, environment, activity) can have a lot to do with dysplasia too.
 

Jeannie

Super Moderator
Most breeders will only guarantee against 'crippling' hip dysplasia. There is a big difference between crippling hip dysplasia and hip dysplasia.
 

sendchocolate

New member
Lynn and Jeannie, it is that painstaking 1 hand typing thing...in was not referring to the hip dysplasia..I know thatbhappens in the bestof lines. I was referring to the non-communication and lack of AKC papers. To sell under AKC and then refuse to produce the papers could be fraud.
 

Kodabear

New member
Good to know. I thought any form of hip dysplasia was all breeding. in saying that, I just meant any general malady that could have been due to breeding. At least as a buyer is is good to have some sort of assurance on paper that the breeder had done his/her homework on genetics. Just a frustrating situation. I would never trade Koda for anything I guess I just wanted what I had been promised from my breeder.

I still do hate to be confrontational with her and threaten a lawsuit. She has been nice and helpful in most other aspects of the process. It's just a shame the thought of small claims court even has to cross my mind.
 

minnesota

New member
What if my beloved puppy ends up having hip dysplasia now? I would at least like to have my 2,000 dollars back.

I think I would threaten her with small claims court. Not because I didn't love and want my dog, but because it might make her think twice about doing it again to anyone else!

Why would you think a pup having hip dysplasia would be the breeders fault? If she was that bad of a breeder to begin with (didn't do health testing) then why would you buy a pup from her?
Genetics is genetics and there is no predictability to it sometimes. All a breeders can do is to try to breed the best possible pups, but after that there are no guarantees. How a pup is raised (food, environment, activity) can have a lot to do with dysplasia too.
and according to my vet hip dysplasia can be caused by other things than just genetcis ie...if the pup grows to fast or undo stress on the joints while young
 
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