Does Birth Order Indicate Personality?
- Thread starter luvmynwfy
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lotus
New member
May I add another question to this one...do all puppies in a litter basically have the same personality or are they completely differen from very shy tor very outgoing..much like children in a family
RhodyNewf
New member
A shelter worker that had fostered many litters of pups once told me that puppies later in the birth order were more likely to have dominant/aggressive personalities than puppies born first or second. I have no idea if this is valid or not, but she said that those puppies were more likely to have had to "fight" for food from birth and that because of that, their aggression threshold was lower. I will be interested in answers as well!!
YorkvilleNewfie
New member
I don't know anything about litter order, but I've heard time and time again that singleton pups have a much different temperament than pups from a full litter. Mila's a singleton and a total knothead. Even though she got to play with another litter on the ground on occassion, I still agree with the sentiment that singletons are a PITA! :banghead: That I've heard is true, because they don't have to work for anything. All of mama's attention and milk go to the loner pup, thusly creating a monster of epic proportions.
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Cascadians
New member
Based on my experience with collie puppies I can say each pup had a distinct personality and there were dramatic variations within a litter.
Also have 2 brother littermate Maine Coon cats whose personalities are very different and who love and complement each other as best friends forever.
Birth order, curious. An experienced breeder can answer that.
Personally I wanted my pup to be at least 12 weeks old before separated from his mum and litter mates. I think they learn so much that way and are better adjusted if they have that time.
Also have 2 brother littermate Maine Coon cats whose personalities are very different and who love and complement each other as best friends forever.
Birth order, curious. An experienced breeder can answer that.
Personally I wanted my pup to be at least 12 weeks old before separated from his mum and litter mates. I think they learn so much that way and are better adjusted if they have that time.
2Paws
New member
I am by no means an experienced breeder but I have had the opportunity to watch two litters develop from birth.
The first litter was Truman's litter. There were four boys in the litter. He was NOT the first born. He was the ring leader and basically the others followed suit with what he did. I was able to watch them long distance from pictures, videos and stories from the breeder. When they played king of the mountain, he was always king. However, when momma was around, she was boss and Truman was very quick to give up the leadership role to his mother.
When I went to pick him up, I was able to watch how he played with his brothers and interact with him mom before he came home with me. He was 12 weeks old when he left his family to come home with me. We had a litter reunion when the pups were 6 months old. There hadn't been any contact between Truman and his three other brothers who all lived together in the same home. It was amazing to see him take up the role of ring leader as soon as they met and there were no issues from the others. He was the boss until momma appeared and he again deferred to her. I noted that their mother was a very strong personality type and very confident.
Truman is very good at reading other dogs. He is very outgoing and confident and can sometimes be pushy with other dogs but if they give any kind of signal that they want to be left alone, he is very quick to defer to their wishes. It's been fun watching him develop.
The second litter I watched was a litter sired by Henry. There were 8 surviving puppies that I was able to watch until they all went to their homes at 10 weeks of age. Each one had a unique personality. In this litter one of the girls was the leader but I also saw the leadership role switch from one to another without a big issue. I could see how some were quite adventuresome, one was quite thoughtful, one was quite persistant in getting what she wanted. It's been fun hearing about their adventures from their new owners and seeing how that unique personality helped develop the relationships between the puppies and their new owners.
It's a good thing I'm not a breeder. I would never get anything done. Puppies are so much fun to watch.
The first litter was Truman's litter. There were four boys in the litter. He was NOT the first born. He was the ring leader and basically the others followed suit with what he did. I was able to watch them long distance from pictures, videos and stories from the breeder. When they played king of the mountain, he was always king. However, when momma was around, she was boss and Truman was very quick to give up the leadership role to his mother.
When I went to pick him up, I was able to watch how he played with his brothers and interact with him mom before he came home with me. He was 12 weeks old when he left his family to come home with me. We had a litter reunion when the pups were 6 months old. There hadn't been any contact between Truman and his three other brothers who all lived together in the same home. It was amazing to see him take up the role of ring leader as soon as they met and there were no issues from the others. He was the boss until momma appeared and he again deferred to her. I noted that their mother was a very strong personality type and very confident.
Truman is very good at reading other dogs. He is very outgoing and confident and can sometimes be pushy with other dogs but if they give any kind of signal that they want to be left alone, he is very quick to defer to their wishes. It's been fun watching him develop.
The second litter I watched was a litter sired by Henry. There were 8 surviving puppies that I was able to watch until they all went to their homes at 10 weeks of age. Each one had a unique personality. In this litter one of the girls was the leader but I also saw the leadership role switch from one to another without a big issue. I could see how some were quite adventuresome, one was quite thoughtful, one was quite persistant in getting what she wanted. It's been fun hearing about their adventures from their new owners and seeing how that unique personality helped develop the relationships between the puppies and their new owners.
It's a good thing I'm not a breeder. I would never get anything done. Puppies are so much fun to watch.
R Taft
Active member
It has been discussed in many "puppy papers" that puppies who are right up in the Horns of the uterus are often more shy......Some people say that they are not as climatized to people, around the bitch as the others.....Somewhere in all my junk I have two papers on a study of lots of beagle puppy litters where this was noted. The puppies were all bred and born at a lab...the bitches were handled a lot and so were the litters and they were recorded as to birth order. I have never been too sure of all of it. But there have been studies. Those would be the last pups born.
I have spent a lot of time with my Breeders litters and I find that their are a lot of different personalities in the litter. I picked my Katy with the Volhard system, same as I picked Abbey that way.
I love sitting in litters of any breed and watching the personalities. I never go for the most forward pup or the most timid, or even laid-back puppy. I like the puppy that is not the bully of the litter.......I have found that the pups I picked as per volhard, have been very easy dogs ( I have picked a lot of pups for other people and for work dogs), and very social. But is that because of all the work we do with them ?, once they are home and maybe not even related to how they were in the litter? It would be very difficult to Test this. Could only be done in a Lab type environment and that would be dreadful for the puppies (the ones that were not socialised)
I think what you do with the puppy from 4weeks (even before) on is very important for the rest of their lives. But many puppies have had lousy Breeders and have still turned out OK, because of lots of effort being put in socialization when they got to their owners, like our Tessa.......Lousy Breeders, to us at 5 weeks. Lots of socialization and training. great socially adept dog.
The same goes the opposite.......Dog well socialized by Breeder, well handled from day one, kept till ten weeks.....treated badly when they went to new owners, badly socialized and not trained. And you get a Annabelle. She has come back to being pretty good, but will never be 100% reliable.
I think we can change dogs in their early 8-16 weeks. Be it good or bad......
I have found that newfies know newfies too. Katy goes almost silly when she sees a newfie, even one she has never met before. Annabelle also accepts newfies easily, I have always found it so amazing, how easy newfie days are, so very social, love it.
We also had our first other newfie arrive at our kennel Club. And mine were almost out of control, trying to greet her. And she was like she had seen old friends. We had never met before and everyone was amazed. Ofcourse we are all good friends now
I have spent a lot of time with my Breeders litters and I find that their are a lot of different personalities in the litter. I picked my Katy with the Volhard system, same as I picked Abbey that way.
I love sitting in litters of any breed and watching the personalities. I never go for the most forward pup or the most timid, or even laid-back puppy. I like the puppy that is not the bully of the litter.......I have found that the pups I picked as per volhard, have been very easy dogs ( I have picked a lot of pups for other people and for work dogs), and very social. But is that because of all the work we do with them ?, once they are home and maybe not even related to how they were in the litter? It would be very difficult to Test this. Could only be done in a Lab type environment and that would be dreadful for the puppies (the ones that were not socialised)
I think what you do with the puppy from 4weeks (even before) on is very important for the rest of their lives. But many puppies have had lousy Breeders and have still turned out OK, because of lots of effort being put in socialization when they got to their owners, like our Tessa.......Lousy Breeders, to us at 5 weeks. Lots of socialization and training. great socially adept dog.
The same goes the opposite.......Dog well socialized by Breeder, well handled from day one, kept till ten weeks.....treated badly when they went to new owners, badly socialized and not trained. And you get a Annabelle. She has come back to being pretty good, but will never be 100% reliable.
I think we can change dogs in their early 8-16 weeks. Be it good or bad......
I have found that newfies know newfies too. Katy goes almost silly when she sees a newfie, even one she has never met before. Annabelle also accepts newfies easily, I have always found it so amazing, how easy newfie days are, so very social, love it.
We also had our first other newfie arrive at our kennel Club. And mine were almost out of control, trying to greet her. And she was like she had seen old friends. We had never met before and everyone was amazed. Ofcourse we are all good friends now
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Ginny
New member
Amelia from Jill's first litter was way up at the top of the horn and she is/was a pistol!
R Taft
Active member
I agree...that is why I said it was in papers...i think you can find a study on anything
KAty was also the last pup born.......She is definitely not shy. But handling also comes into it. I think each pup has it's own little genetic make-up that is there and we can only enrich it with socialization
janices
New member
There is studies on intrauterine position relating to hormone concentrations and behavior.
Temperament is in general considered highly heritable trait so look at temperament of parents. Temperament is a combination of genes and environment. Environment can make a dog with less than desirable genes easier to live with but you can't undo undesirable genes.
Temperament is in general considered highly heritable trait so look at temperament of parents. Temperament is a combination of genes and environment. Environment can make a dog with less than desirable genes easier to live with but you can't undo undesirable genes.
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Capri
New member
Are pups in a litter different? YES, they are. BUT, as with conformation, if you have an established line and breed just for one specific temperament, you are more likely to get a balanced litter with that specific (temperamental) trait. Dogs that have been bred to be laid back are in general more laid back, whereas dogs that have been bred to be active are in general more active. And when you cross and a laid-back newf with an active one you are more likely to get more variation in the temperament. Makes sense, right? The same applies to other temperamental characteristics too. However for example shyness and anxiousness have been studied to be highly heritable and would very likely show up in a litter if either parent was so.
But then there's again handling, environment and especially the owners influencing the temperaments.
example: take a laid-back newf and activate is as a puppy, you are likely to get a fairly active newf (however never as active as an active newf to start with)
example 2: take a laid-back newf and do not activate it, you are likely to get a laid-back newf
example 3: take a normal tempered newf and always make a fuss over anything that happens, you are likely to get a scared newf
example 4: take a normal tempered newf and never make a fuss over anything, you are likely to get a normal tempered newf
example 5: take a normal tempered newf and don't set the boundaries, you are likely to get a dominant newf
example 6: take a normal tempered newf and set boundaries, you are likely to get a normal tempered newf
example 7: take a normal tempered puppy, grow it in a barn, you are likely to get a newf that doesn't like cars/people/city centres
example 8: take a normal tempered puppy, socialize it well, you are likely to get a newf that doesn't mind anything
And then there's also learned behaviours, but that I would put under owner influence, and also partly under breeder influence. I always say that puppies are like play-dough, you can make anything an everything out of them as long as you know how to handle them: suppress the unwanted behaviours and praise for the wanted behaviours.
But then there's again handling, environment and especially the owners influencing the temperaments.
example: take a laid-back newf and activate is as a puppy, you are likely to get a fairly active newf (however never as active as an active newf to start with)
example 2: take a laid-back newf and do not activate it, you are likely to get a laid-back newf
example 3: take a normal tempered newf and always make a fuss over anything that happens, you are likely to get a scared newf
example 4: take a normal tempered newf and never make a fuss over anything, you are likely to get a normal tempered newf
example 5: take a normal tempered newf and don't set the boundaries, you are likely to get a dominant newf
example 6: take a normal tempered newf and set boundaries, you are likely to get a normal tempered newf
example 7: take a normal tempered puppy, grow it in a barn, you are likely to get a newf that doesn't like cars/people/city centres
example 8: take a normal tempered puppy, socialize it well, you are likely to get a newf that doesn't mind anything
And then there's also learned behaviours, but that I would put under owner influence, and also partly under breeder influence. I always say that puppies are like play-dough, you can make anything an everything out of them as long as you know how to handle them: suppress the unwanted behaviours and praise for the wanted behaviours.
Sound Bay Newfs
Active member
Pups have their own personalities, just like children. I haven't seen any difference in birth order and temperament.
R Taft
Active member
Love it.......
Ronnie
ajcooksey
New member
My two are litter mates and they have very different personalities I don't know their birth order but I know that neither of them were first (the first puppy was the largest). Hope this helps they are truly unique personalities but they do complement each other well and are undeniably best friends