SiriusBlack
New member
Hi all,
I posted on this board early on (almost a year ago) when we first got our puppy, Sirius, and then wound up finding the FB Newf Dog Owners page (which is not working right now! ugh) and I'm back today with a lot of heart break and worry and would love to get some perspective from others familiar with the breed. I'm not even sure if I'm asking anything or if I'm just rambling. Please bear with me!
Important things to know, first off:
*13 month old male
*Intact
*History of orthopedic problems (will explain)
*Working with a certified veterinary behaviorist
*Two kids (girls) in the home, ages 12.5 and 10
We have had our pup for 11 months. We know now (from joining the Newf FB page) that he came from a backyard breeder. We got him at 8 weeks.
He was always pretty excitable and mouthy, but we worked on hard on that using positive training, Ian Dunbar's training methods, two rounds of puppy classes, and a private trainer.
He was the star of his first puppy classes. SO sweet and friendly to every dog, child, or person he ever met.
He was a little too excitable, not very treat motivated, and easily distracted, but ALWAYS sweet and outgoing and never afraid of anyone. Every trainer we worked with said better to train out excitability than a fearful temperament. He was praised by everyone wherever we went. We were so proud!
(He has always been a bit of a slow learner, but I think that was mostly in his younger days. He gets things FAST now. Only a few clicks and he learns something new.)
In his first few weeks and months with us he met ALL kinds of people, but mostly kids. My kids are homeschooled and we went to the park once a week where he happily greeted everyone, or sometimes fell asleep on my lap. Toddlers would give him treats. He was SO good and gentle. Our puppy class had a contest for socialization and we got over 100 signatures in our "puppy book" of people who had met our puppy. Sirius loved it. We joked that we had an extrovert dog. Again, we were so proud!
At 4 months, he wound up with cherry eye, which we had surgically fixed the following month. He recovered well. Did not once ever snap, growl, or resist us putting drops into his little eyeball EVERY single day. Such a good puppy.
At 6 months, he started limping on his front leg. Thought it was pano, initially. When the limping got worse around month 8, we had radiographs and discovered that he had both hip AND elbow dysplasia. We were devastated. Breeder was "astonished" because she had never dealt with anything like that before. Offered to take him back, but I started to have a really bad gut feeling about her and worry that she would use him as breeding stock or re-home him, or worse.
During this time, I had about 5-6 little girls coming over each Wednesday afternoon, and Sirius LOVED them. Would sit in the yard with them, play with them inside, and of course, when he would get too rough, I would separate them. Every interaction was under supervision and none of the kids were rough with him at all.
At 9 months, he started exhibiting teen behavior, so we stepped up our training game and hired a private trainer to come over. Nothing serious, but barking at people walking up the driveway (then just licking them once they got inside) and jumping up, etc. Typical dog stuff that we wanted to address, but since he is so distracted by other dogs (loves them), we hired a trainer who would come to our house instead of doing another class.
As soon as the trainer saw him try to get up and down, she was horrified and said he looked like he was in so much pain. She taught us how to get him to settle on his mat (most valuable skill ever!), but recommended NOT training anything that required the use of his limbs until he was well. We made all kinds of appointments with surgeons and vets and scheduled a surgery for his elbows.
Also at this time, our homeschool co-op ended for the year, so the little girls stopped coming over for the summer.
At about 10-11 months, Sirius began a worrisome behavior where he would rush the baby gates when the girls were going in and out of whatever part of the house we had closed off. He would also nip them as though he was trying to get them to stay, or like maybe he wanted to be let through the baby gate. We called the trainer and she referred us to the behaviorist that works for her. The soonest appointment we could get with her, was after his surgery.
He had surgery to remove bone chips at 11 months. After surgery he was on strict crate rest. Still, he started to LUNGE at the crate door every time our kids would walk by and go into the hallway through the baby gate. He also started barking when they'd walk by.
After he was released from crate rest, he began another behavior where he would whine, lunge, and bark at the girls if they were laughing. He had NEVER done anything like this before.
Meanwhile, he was going to hydrotherapy twice a week, swimming sometimes at the lake, doing short walks as his legs permitted, and still limping badly.
Sirius also started chasing the kids and/or me, every time our parakeet would screech from the other room. Almost like it made him mad and he would try to take it out on someone else. Loud trucks, motorcycles, the hair dryer ALL elicit this response now.
The girls started making him SIT and WAIT every time they went through the baby gates and that helped a TON. He chased way less.
The behaviorist had us work on desensitizing him to the girls' laughing by clicking and treating him whenever they laughed or cried. It seemed to be going well, but one day, my husband tickled my 12 yo daughter to elicit a laugh for a training session, my daughter's leg sort of went in the air, and Sirius lunged too quickly for me and bit her on her back. Not super hard, but he did scratch her skin. (Not a deep puncture, more like a scrape.)
The first behaviorist then suggested getting in contact with a veterinary behaviorist who visits our area twice a month.
We met with Dr. Stickler (vet behaviorist) 2 weeks ago. She thinks he is a sweet dog who is noise reactive and redirecting aggression onto the kids. She thinks it is possible to manage and shape the behavior, but that he will never be 100% trustworthy around children. My heart was broken. How could this be the same sweet puppy we were all obsessed with, and who seemed to love us all so much?
Dr. Strickler thinks it could be a combination of pain and genetics--his legs hurt all the time, and it's possible that he is now showing his "true" colors/genes as an adult dog. That part breaks my heart. She prescribed Zoloft, Trazadone, and Gabapentin.
Anyway, the VERY next day (we had not started the meds yet), he was playing with a toy pretty happily in the living room and then jumped on the couch where my 10 yo was sitting reading a book. He started to get on top of her (and my husband went to grab his leash) but when she stood up to give him the down command, he barked and nipped her back. This was happening while my husband was holding the leash--the more he is restrained in these situations, the more crazy, barking, and bitey he becomes.
Dr. Stickler wants him muzzled now, all the time, and/or kept away from the kids while the meds kick in. He has been MUCH calmer on the meds, but still barking and lunging when he hears the kids go through doors in other parts of the house.
The FB group put me in touch with Carole Crawford from SENC, and she has been SO helpful. She lets me call her day or night crying about Sirius.
Still, I don't know what our future with him will be or what it could look like, realistically. We might want to have more kids. Would he be safe around them?
None of my daughters' friends are allowed to come over right now. We are all on high alert, sitting with him almost every minute (we work from home so we can do this, but it's SO stressful) and our kids are relegated to their bedroom almost 100% of the day.
We are re-training for the crate, because after he was on crate rest for the elbows, he became leery of being locked in. We are also trying to get him used to the muzzle.
I am so sad all the time. We love him SO, SO much. Brought him to the vet for a minor thing today, and he was SO well behaved, as he always is in public. Vet looked in his ears, mouth, etc., and he was such a good boy. He is good with our kids other places, too. Good at the park, at PetSmart, etc. It is at home that he flips out on them.
I keep feeling terrified that he will hurt the girls, and also terrified of losing him.
I can't imagine anyone else giving him the level of care we do or that he needs with all of his health issues.
I am so grateful that we are getting qualified help, and hoping that we see progress with meds, but also really really devastated about what this "new normal" is like with our previously sweet dog. When the girls go somewhere and come back home, he is SO happy to see them. He loves them. But then he can be so super scary with them. They are so confused and sad.
I pretty much sob myself to sleep, because he is just sleeping quietly on the floor by our bed and I want things to be different. I don't know if I am underrating or overreacting to the bites on the kids. He is nearly 13 months old, so not really "puppy" behavior anymore, and it did really seem to come out of frustration and not playfulness. We just don't know what to do, except try meds for a few weeks, train/condition, and hope that it works. I just don't know that it will.
Thank so much for listening.
I posted on this board early on (almost a year ago) when we first got our puppy, Sirius, and then wound up finding the FB Newf Dog Owners page (which is not working right now! ugh) and I'm back today with a lot of heart break and worry and would love to get some perspective from others familiar with the breed. I'm not even sure if I'm asking anything or if I'm just rambling. Please bear with me!
Important things to know, first off:
*13 month old male
*Intact
*History of orthopedic problems (will explain)
*Working with a certified veterinary behaviorist
*Two kids (girls) in the home, ages 12.5 and 10
We have had our pup for 11 months. We know now (from joining the Newf FB page) that he came from a backyard breeder. We got him at 8 weeks.
He was always pretty excitable and mouthy, but we worked on hard on that using positive training, Ian Dunbar's training methods, two rounds of puppy classes, and a private trainer.
He was the star of his first puppy classes. SO sweet and friendly to every dog, child, or person he ever met.
He was a little too excitable, not very treat motivated, and easily distracted, but ALWAYS sweet and outgoing and never afraid of anyone. Every trainer we worked with said better to train out excitability than a fearful temperament. He was praised by everyone wherever we went. We were so proud!
(He has always been a bit of a slow learner, but I think that was mostly in his younger days. He gets things FAST now. Only a few clicks and he learns something new.)
In his first few weeks and months with us he met ALL kinds of people, but mostly kids. My kids are homeschooled and we went to the park once a week where he happily greeted everyone, or sometimes fell asleep on my lap. Toddlers would give him treats. He was SO good and gentle. Our puppy class had a contest for socialization and we got over 100 signatures in our "puppy book" of people who had met our puppy. Sirius loved it. We joked that we had an extrovert dog. Again, we were so proud!
At 4 months, he wound up with cherry eye, which we had surgically fixed the following month. He recovered well. Did not once ever snap, growl, or resist us putting drops into his little eyeball EVERY single day. Such a good puppy.
At 6 months, he started limping on his front leg. Thought it was pano, initially. When the limping got worse around month 8, we had radiographs and discovered that he had both hip AND elbow dysplasia. We were devastated. Breeder was "astonished" because she had never dealt with anything like that before. Offered to take him back, but I started to have a really bad gut feeling about her and worry that she would use him as breeding stock or re-home him, or worse.
During this time, I had about 5-6 little girls coming over each Wednesday afternoon, and Sirius LOVED them. Would sit in the yard with them, play with them inside, and of course, when he would get too rough, I would separate them. Every interaction was under supervision and none of the kids were rough with him at all.
At 9 months, he started exhibiting teen behavior, so we stepped up our training game and hired a private trainer to come over. Nothing serious, but barking at people walking up the driveway (then just licking them once they got inside) and jumping up, etc. Typical dog stuff that we wanted to address, but since he is so distracted by other dogs (loves them), we hired a trainer who would come to our house instead of doing another class.
As soon as the trainer saw him try to get up and down, she was horrified and said he looked like he was in so much pain. She taught us how to get him to settle on his mat (most valuable skill ever!), but recommended NOT training anything that required the use of his limbs until he was well. We made all kinds of appointments with surgeons and vets and scheduled a surgery for his elbows.
Also at this time, our homeschool co-op ended for the year, so the little girls stopped coming over for the summer.
At about 10-11 months, Sirius began a worrisome behavior where he would rush the baby gates when the girls were going in and out of whatever part of the house we had closed off. He would also nip them as though he was trying to get them to stay, or like maybe he wanted to be let through the baby gate. We called the trainer and she referred us to the behaviorist that works for her. The soonest appointment we could get with her, was after his surgery.
He had surgery to remove bone chips at 11 months. After surgery he was on strict crate rest. Still, he started to LUNGE at the crate door every time our kids would walk by and go into the hallway through the baby gate. He also started barking when they'd walk by.
After he was released from crate rest, he began another behavior where he would whine, lunge, and bark at the girls if they were laughing. He had NEVER done anything like this before.
Meanwhile, he was going to hydrotherapy twice a week, swimming sometimes at the lake, doing short walks as his legs permitted, and still limping badly.
Sirius also started chasing the kids and/or me, every time our parakeet would screech from the other room. Almost like it made him mad and he would try to take it out on someone else. Loud trucks, motorcycles, the hair dryer ALL elicit this response now.
The girls started making him SIT and WAIT every time they went through the baby gates and that helped a TON. He chased way less.
The behaviorist had us work on desensitizing him to the girls' laughing by clicking and treating him whenever they laughed or cried. It seemed to be going well, but one day, my husband tickled my 12 yo daughter to elicit a laugh for a training session, my daughter's leg sort of went in the air, and Sirius lunged too quickly for me and bit her on her back. Not super hard, but he did scratch her skin. (Not a deep puncture, more like a scrape.)
The first behaviorist then suggested getting in contact with a veterinary behaviorist who visits our area twice a month.
We met with Dr. Stickler (vet behaviorist) 2 weeks ago. She thinks he is a sweet dog who is noise reactive and redirecting aggression onto the kids. She thinks it is possible to manage and shape the behavior, but that he will never be 100% trustworthy around children. My heart was broken. How could this be the same sweet puppy we were all obsessed with, and who seemed to love us all so much?
Dr. Strickler thinks it could be a combination of pain and genetics--his legs hurt all the time, and it's possible that he is now showing his "true" colors/genes as an adult dog. That part breaks my heart. She prescribed Zoloft, Trazadone, and Gabapentin.
Anyway, the VERY next day (we had not started the meds yet), he was playing with a toy pretty happily in the living room and then jumped on the couch where my 10 yo was sitting reading a book. He started to get on top of her (and my husband went to grab his leash) but when she stood up to give him the down command, he barked and nipped her back. This was happening while my husband was holding the leash--the more he is restrained in these situations, the more crazy, barking, and bitey he becomes.
Dr. Stickler wants him muzzled now, all the time, and/or kept away from the kids while the meds kick in. He has been MUCH calmer on the meds, but still barking and lunging when he hears the kids go through doors in other parts of the house.
The FB group put me in touch with Carole Crawford from SENC, and she has been SO helpful. She lets me call her day or night crying about Sirius.
Still, I don't know what our future with him will be or what it could look like, realistically. We might want to have more kids. Would he be safe around them?
None of my daughters' friends are allowed to come over right now. We are all on high alert, sitting with him almost every minute (we work from home so we can do this, but it's SO stressful) and our kids are relegated to their bedroom almost 100% of the day.
We are re-training for the crate, because after he was on crate rest for the elbows, he became leery of being locked in. We are also trying to get him used to the muzzle.
I am so sad all the time. We love him SO, SO much. Brought him to the vet for a minor thing today, and he was SO well behaved, as he always is in public. Vet looked in his ears, mouth, etc., and he was such a good boy. He is good with our kids other places, too. Good at the park, at PetSmart, etc. It is at home that he flips out on them.
I keep feeling terrified that he will hurt the girls, and also terrified of losing him.
I can't imagine anyone else giving him the level of care we do or that he needs with all of his health issues.
I am so grateful that we are getting qualified help, and hoping that we see progress with meds, but also really really devastated about what this "new normal" is like with our previously sweet dog. When the girls go somewhere and come back home, he is SO happy to see them. He loves them. But then he can be so super scary with them. They are so confused and sad.
I pretty much sob myself to sleep, because he is just sleeping quietly on the floor by our bed and I want things to be different. I don't know if I am underrating or overreacting to the bites on the kids. He is nearly 13 months old, so not really "puppy" behavior anymore, and it did really seem to come out of frustration and not playfulness. We just don't know what to do, except try meds for a few weeks, train/condition, and hope that it works. I just don't know that it will.
Thank so much for listening.
