Appropriate breeding ages for both males and females?

[blaue_augen]

As I look at puppies, I am noticing the age of the parents. I'm assuming females shouldn't be bread too young or too old. Can males be fathers longer? Is there an age that is too old for males to breed? Sorry for the silly question, I just wanted to make sure the puppies we are looking at have appropriately aged parents.

Thanks!

 

[wrknnwf]

My guess is yes, males can be older than females. They don't have the wear and tear on organs that a poor female does. I think most times the male's semen is collected and either used fresh or frozen. So breeders have the option to use the dog's sperm after the dog is too old or even passed on.

 

[Sound Bay Newfs]

Males can breed longer than females. When a male is collected, the specimen should always be checked under a microscope to make sure it is good quality. Sometimes breeders will have a male they like that has produced nice pups and they want to keep the line going even as he gets older.

 

[ardeagold]

Well youngest breeding age here in the US should be after they have their OFA clearances. That's 2 yrs old for hips and elbows. You can look up the parent's registered names on www.offa.org to see if they have clearances for Hips, Elbows, Heart, Cystinuria (heart problems can be very serious or deadly, and cystinuria is deadly). Plus clearances for thyroid, eyes and patellas isn't a bad idea. You can get those all after a year of age, but not the hips and elbows.

I'm not sure about the "outer" age limit for males. It depends on the motility of the sperm, which usually decreases as they age.

There are a lot of deceased males (as well as live ones) who's semen has been frozen for use. Many/most Newfs are bred via artificial insemination. So if you use frozen semen, the dog could be 15 yrs (or more) old.

 

[Capri]

Appropriate age for a female: between two to six. I think older than that is too much for a female, even if she were in a superb condition. You must also take into consideration how many and how often that female has had litters.

A male can be between two and eight-nine-ten years, depending on his condition. I would not assume a newf to be able to stud females after ten years. Around nine-ten-ish I would probably lean towards AI rather than a natural mating, just because of the sire's age (depending on his condition). We used a male two years ago that was just over 8 years, it was a natural mating and had a gorgeous litter of 8 puppies. This year we used a male that was born in 1984 (frozen semen of course), and had a gorgeous litter again. So even THAT old of a male can be OK to use. When looking at the sire of the litter it is important to look again at how many litters he already has had, how often and what kind of offspring has he produced (easier to know if he is an older male). To me, those would be much more important than the actual age of the sire.

I would also be wary of taking a puppy from an AI litter (if you plan to breed yourself) unless it is done for a valid reason (male far away, deceased or very very old). It is important for both parents to be able to (and willing) to mate naturally.

 

[Sun Valley]

I would also be wary of taking a puppy from an AI litter (if you plan to breed yourself) unless it is done for a valid reason (male far away, deceased or very very old). It is important for both parents to be able to (and willing) to mate naturally.

I agree with the statement about breeding ages, but definitely not about AI's.
In the US, most breedings are done via AI, and not Natural at breedings. I don't know of any kennels right now that allow their dogs to be bred naturally.

Lou Ann

 

[Capri]

I don't know of any kennels right now that allow their dogs to be bred naturally.

Why not?

 

[Sun Valley]

Many kennels ended up with sterile males from bitch's that had infections that were being passed around from dog to dog.
Many people here are also doing shipped breeding's so TCI's and implants are constantly being done.

Lou Ann

 

[Ginny]

AI's have been the MO in the states for a long time...my first bitch, 20 yrs. ago, was a conceived via artificial insemination.

 

[blaue_augen]

Thank you all for the information! I guess it's like humans, it's not unheard of for a man to father children at 60+, but it's MUCH less common for a woman!

I don't plan to ever ever ever breed myself. I'll leave that to the experts. I was just curious. And now I have some more good questions to ask as we talk to breeders.

 

[Cascadians]

That's very interesting, that it moved in the USA from natural breeding to AI because of STDs. My adopted mother was a collie breeder and in the 60's it was all natural for our kennel in Tucson Arizona. Feels all warm and fuzzy that Orka was conceived the old fashioned passionate way. He has made it abundantly clear that he is more than willing to continue the tradition. (Sorry pal, no breeding for you).

 

[ardeagold]

All breeds are using AI or even implantation a lot more now because they can "breed" from across the country (or even from other countries), and have a much wider selection of males.

It allows breeders to match up their bitch and the dog via pedigree, longevity, health history of the line, structural preferences, etc without having to drive or ship the animal hundreds or thousands of miles to get the match they want.

The STD's (brucellosis especially) should always be tested for in both breeding partners prior to breeding anyway. I'm sure that semen could still spread it, however, if frozen...I don't know. Fresh chilled...probably.

Goldens are easy breeders and easy birthers, plus generally have fairly large litters. But there are a LOT more of them in any area of the country. So they're bred naturally more frequently, but still AI is used, to allow for a more varied selection of a mate.

 

[blaue_augen]

Wow, you guys are such a wealth of knowledge! Such interesting stuff. Thank you.

 

[Pipelineozzy]

Brucellosis is only the tip of the iceberg..and not the one that is most common. There are mycoplasmas and things like that out there that give NO indication that there is anything wrong, but can be transmitted. PLUS...a culture for mycoplasma takes so long to get that by the time it's in, if your bitch was in heat when it was taken...it's too late to breed her!! (I just checked this on my last breeding...12 days for a mycoplasma culture here.)

 

[ardeagold]

Brucellosis is only the tip of the iceberg..and not the one that is most common. There are mycoplasmas and things like that out there that give NO indication that there is anything wrong, but can be transmitted. PLUS...a culture for mycoplasma takes so long to get that by the time it's in, if your bitch was in heat when it was taken...it's too late to breed her!! (I just checked this on my last breeding...12 days for a mycoplasma culture here.)

Can they still be spread via chilled semen? Just curious.

I think, perhaps, having them (male and female) tested before she's in season, (and him while he's still being used as a stud) while in the planning stages of the next litter, might be the wise course of action. However, I'd guess the male can't get an STD if he's only being used via AI or frozen, since he's not sexually active. LOL

Why would you wait until the bitch is in season, and you want to breed her during that season, to have the tests done?

 

[Pipelineozzy]

You know I'm actually not sure about that..but since they affect fertility, I would wonder if you would get a good enough sample to bother chilling and shipping anyway. In the ones I have seen, there was a high percentage of dead sperm, proximal droplets, detached heads, tail defects and things like that on the sperm as a result of those types of infections. The samples I"ve actually looked at have been bovine..but there is no reason to believe it would be any different in dogs. I can't see WHY it would not be spread via chilled semen, but if a male is not used for breeding naturally, you greatly reduce the chance of him being infected,... Some forms of mycoplasma don't even require sexual contact to be spread...and many of them influence fertility. Back in the early 90's, I had to treat ALL my dogs for a month because one tested positive for a type of mycoplasma...and there was no point in treating just THAT dog. Cost me a fortune, not to mention being a pain in the ass to walk around every day, 3 x a day, with a tray of liver cookies with pills stuffed in them all and treat 11 dogs. (The drug of choice by culture for that one was tetracycline...and it had to be given 3 x a day.) I never did figure out how I got it, but was showing a lot then and the vet thought maybe at a dog show.

 

[Pipelineozzy]

On why wait till she's in season...because the cervix is opening then, and if she was harboring anything within...when the cervix is closed, you have less chance of finding out. (This, according to ONE vet that I discussed it with...) A male can be cultured at any point. In practice, unless a kennel has had a problem with infertility, I don't think people routinely culture, at least I don't. The dog that I had tested was actually a male...who was going to be used, and I did it just to make sure because other people were having trouble that summer. I will have to ask my repro vet about culturing bitches and see what she says...it's been a long time since I did it, and things have advanced a LOT since then. I do know that mycoplasma cultures are done separate from a regular vaginal culture still.

 

[ardeagold]

Hmmm...interesting.

Mycoplasma is often found in those with Lyme Disease (a co-infection). I suspect that's why the drug of choice for Lyme is Doxycycline, versus Amoxicillin (which also works on Lyme itself). And, they're dosing (or should be) for MUCH longer now for Lyme. Usually 8 weeks. When I see someone say the Vet gave their dog (or them) a 2 week regimen of Doxy for Lyme, I cringe.

It's also interesting that many may not test routinely for STD's in breeding pairs (test both of them). Most reputable (I say that to separate them from the seemingly limitless BYB's) Golden breeders do. But, then again, many more Goldens are bred naturally.

 

[janices]

The STD's (brucellosis especially) should always be tested for in both breeding partners prior to breeding anyway. I'm sure that semen could still spread it, however, if frozen...I don't know. Fresh chilled...probably.

Yes, semen can spread it.

There's too much stuff nowadays that can be picked up at dog shows or just out doing things like working stuff.

I tested my bitch prior to breeding. But then I don't do many litters and will never do many.

Likewise don't know of anybody that allows natural to be done anymore. All AI's.

 

[Capri]

Thanks for the clarification. Don't get me wrong here, I do think AI is fantastic as it opens up so many new opportunities that wouldn't otherwise be possible, but I don't think it should be used if the only reason for using AI (or other reproductive technologies) is because it's possible to do it. Natural mating IS an important part of breeding (IMHO), IF possible, however I was not aware that STD/STI's were so common in US newfs, which of course sets a few more boundaries to natural matings.