Another False Pregnancy

Just updating that my girl Morgan is going through her second false pregnancy. She won't be 2 years old til January so I have no interest in breeding her til then and after her testing.
My vet and breeder on the other hand are telling me to breed her on her next cycle which will be around Oct. I can't see any harm in her going through these? Another set back is finding a black but brown recessive AKC tested stud. Close to home of course!!
Is there any reason I should rush into a breeding or wait til the proper test are done. Any info would be helpful. Thank You!
 

Pipelineozzy

New member
Did they say "why" you should breed her on her next heat? Cuz if they are saying it will stop pseudopregnancy, it will..for the cycle where she has real pups lol. But that's all...the worst pseudopregnancies I have ever seen were in mature brood bitches that were experienced.

Just remind them there is more to it than just finding "a" male....you want a male that compliments her from a breeding standpoint, and that you will wait and breed her when she's old enough to have her clearances and you've found the "right" male for her.
 

Sound Bay Newfs

Active member
Your breeder and vet may be worried about pyo since bitches that have frequent false pregnancies tend to have more of a tendency to pyo. So they want you to breed her before this happens (if it does).
Your breeder is the best resource to finding a suitable mate for your girl. What is your goal for this breeding as far as color? Ar you trying to get black and brown?
 

Ginny

New member
Your breeder and vet may be worried about pyo since bitches that have frequent false pregnancies tend to have more of a tendency to pyo. So they want you to breed her before this happens (if it does).
Lynn, I've heard this, but haven't been able to find any scientific literature to support it. Can you point me to some?

I wouldn't breed her until she, at least, has passing prelims and, as others have said, any AKC reg. stud dog isn't necessarily a good match for your girl. Your breeder should know the lines out there and what will hopefully compliment your girl in terms of conformation and health. The stud should also have his clearances and a strong vertical pedigree.
 

Pipelineozzy

New member
I've never seen anything to correlate pyometra and pseudopregnancy either, and honestly, I'd really need to see some hard evidence to establish that one too.
 

YorkvilleNewfie

New member
I'm no breeder, but the common sense voice in my head instantly said that no one should ever "rush" into a breeding. Period. Especially knowing that you're a first time Newf owner...breeding Newfs should not be an endeavour taken lightly or rushed into.
 

Pipelineozzy

New member
I'm no breeder, but the common sense voice in my head instantly said that no one should ever "rush" into a breeding. Period. Especially knowing that you're a first time Newf owner...breeding Newfs should not be an endeavour taken lightly or rushed into.

You've kind of nailed it :)
And in reality..the assumption on breeding dogs is that they are going to be AKC registered...if you are looking in the right places. Close to home isn't really a requirement with the shipping of frozen semen etc. that is available now, you have a good selection of quality studs available via that source. Once you have your female assessed and know that she is truly breeding quality, you can take your time and find a stud dog that enhances her good points and is strong in any areas she is weak. IF your breeder isn't able to help you with selection, you can find someone else knowledgeable in the breed and it's SO helpful to have a good mentor, and I believe there is some good information on the NCA site that will help you assess your female and find out what qualities you need to look for in a stud dog beyond registration and proximity! And..lots of people here who will help you too if you ask! PRegnancy can be a huge draw on a young dog, waiting till she is mature is almost always the best way to go.
 

KatieB

New member
Agree....shouldn't rush into breeding...you have no health clearances, have not shown your girl, state you want a stud who is simply close (red flag) and no one especially your vet and your breeder should be rushing you into breeding your girl. There are far too many newfies out there from litters that weren't well thought out that I don't see the point in breeding more unless you have done thorough research and have a very nice match for your girl and can clearly define what you hope to get out of the litter. Just my two cents....not trying to sound like a b*%$^ but looking at your girls breeders site raises a lot of red flags. So I think you're right to wait and not to rush into breeding your girl. Get her out to some shows and see how well she meets the standard and do her clearances when she's old enough. In the meantime I'd enjoy her and do working activities, but I certainly wouldn't rush into breeding and I'd do a whole lot more research on it and on finding the right stud....not just the registered local stud. There are many here with lots of experience who can help you, but the current situation raises all kinds of issues IMHO.
 

Sound Bay Newfs

Active member
Lynn, I've heard this, but haven't been able to find any scientific literature to support it. Can you point me to some?
I have heard this from discussions with my breeder, other breeders, and repro vet, so I never did much research, but here is what I have found..



Diagnosis of pyometra is generally straight forward. A history of a recent heat cycle, false pregnancy, or delivering pups combined with increased thirst, poor appetite, and decresed energy level raise red flags

dogs with false pregnancies are also prone to pyometra. False pregnancies typically resolve on their own; however, the infections will need to be treated.


 

Sun Valley

New member
In my experience, I have found that bitches that short cycle are more likely to pyo then bitches that have false pregnancies.

I need to have a talk with your breeder Lynn...:)))

I don't recommend breeding to a dog just because it's close...you need to have a knowledge of pedigree's, what's behind your bitches pedigree and what the strength and weakness's are of your bitch and what you want to improve on.

LA
 

Sound Bay Newfs

Active member
In my experience, I have found that bitches that short cycle are more likely to pyo then bitches that have false pregnancies.

LA
That concerns me too, but I have known two bitches that have normal cycles that have pyo'd and one that short cycles that has not, as well as some that were not bred that pyo'd and another that was bred that got pyo. So who knows what the correlation is.

But I agree, breeding should not be rushed into. Heather you sound like you want to wait and do her health clearances and find the right stud dog, so that is what you should do.
 
Well for now I'm gonna hold off on breeding her til I get her tested. Hips, heart, etc. I've thought that since the day we brought her home. That should be around January for testing to be certified on her hips. So then I should have time to find a male. I have been searching and have found some good studs. Strong Newf appearances, good backgrounds, and large to make up for Morgans small frame. 7 hours shouldn't be too bad? We won't leave her knowing my hubby. It's his little girl!

I heard from a friend if I breed her to a brown her puppies could develop bone loss problems since she's a brown. She said it happens if both parents are landseers. Is there any truth to this?
 

Windancer

New member
It is true that you need the black for bone in landseer, You can go landseer to landseer once in a while just one time(generationally) if you have some nice bone. I am not familiar with Brown, but Bill Betchley (Bilfrost) has the best browns in the country IMHO....IF you can get him to let you use a stud. Huge bone.
 
It is true that you need the black for bone in landseer, You can go landseer to landseer once in a while just one time(generationally) if you have some nice bone. I am not familiar with Brown, but Bill Betchley (Bilfrost) has the best browns in the country IMHO....IF you can get him to let you use a stud. Huge bone.
Wow he does have nice browns! New Yorks a little farther than I would want to go and I know Morgans moms line is from New York? Maybe a close relative?
 

ardeagold

New member
Heather, you have to wait until 2 for the hip and elbow clearances, but you can do the heart, eyes, patellas, and thyroid after one year of age. And you can send away for the cystinuria DNA test at any time then send the result in to OFA for a clearance....even at 10 weeks of age.

(The dogs aren't AKC tested...they're OFA cleared, or not. OFA is the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals which maintains a database of dogs and their submitted health information. A CHIC designated dog has been tested for all genetic diseases specified by the breed parent club (and sometimes more than those recommended). In this case, the parent club is the NCA. Just because they're CHIC dogs doesn't mean they PASSED the tests...just that they were tested and the tests were made public on the OFA database. Various Vets do the testing. Opthamologists for the eyes, Cardiologists (not always but if you can, get it done by a Cardio Vet) for the heart, a DNA lab for the cystinuria test, your Vet can do the xrays for the hips/elbows...which are then sent in and reviewed by a panel of 3 Orthopedic Vets at OFA to determine their "grade". Your Vet can also check the thyroid by sending the blood to a lab, and the patellas. Each of these tests has a specific form that needs to be filled out and signed by the Vet doing the exam. Those forms are all on the OFA website so you can print them out and take them to the vet, after filling out your part. Once the tests are done, and the paperwork filled out properly and signed, you can submit them to OFA for the database). Here's the OFA link. To find a dogs/bitches results, you'll need it's full registered name: www.offa.org Not everyone submits results to OFA...even passing results. However, to find out how a dog/bitch "looks" genetically (as far as those specific tests go), OFA is the best place to look (at least first). You do want to see the results of all of those tests when deciding upon a stud.

You also need someone to evaluate your girl for conformation (to see if she meets the breed standard), which should be done by a show breeder, and if it looks promising, get her into some shows to see how she does. And then, be mentored by someone (perhaps your own breeder, or perhaps someone else) who can go over the pedigrees to look for the strengths (and/or weaknesses) of any potential stud for her. Go to some of the top Newf breeders websites and take a GOOD look at their dogs. Look at the pedigrees, and hunt (Google helps) for photos of the dogs in them. Pretty generally, you'll see uniformity in the lines. The breeders are working towards a goal. They want a certain head, bone, straight topline, gait, front, rear, tail set, ear set, eye set, etc. It takes MANY years of careful breeding, knowing lines and health issues, to get the result they're looking for. That's the kind of mentor you should have.

Here's a link to the breed standard, with illustrations of what you do and don't want ... just keep scrolling through to see all parts of the body:

http://www.ncanewfs.org/publications/illustratedguide/illusguidecontents.html

And this is the written NCA breed standard:

http://www.ncanewfs.org/standard.shtml


Genetics are important for more than just health. They also determine everything about the dog, including temperament, structure, coat, working ability, bone density, etc.

Before you get into breeding, you'll need to start doing a lot of research, and have a lot of discussions with someone who can head you in the right direction.

The lady in NY who breeds browns is Helen Mancuso. Niki Hardin (newfiemomof2) here on NN can possibly help you get in touch with her if that's what you'd like to do. Perhaps by having a conversation with her will help you start figuring out the lineage of your girl, and where you might want to look for a potential stud if you decide that she should be bred at all.

Remember, the purpose of breeding should be to improve the breed. To do that, there are SO many things to take into consideration before taking the plunge.
 
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