Age old question : Colour Genetics

Piratebears

New member
:book:Ok , just a quicky - If my Dilute bitch (grey) is bred to a Black who does not carry dilute - does this mean that none of the subsequent black puppies can carry the dilute gene ? I know this means she can not have dilyte pups - but wasnt sure if one parent carrying the dilute gene can pass the gene on to some of the pups ? ....
 

Capri

New member
It's the same as with the breeding a brown to a black. Just replace the colour brown with the dilute-gene.

All the puppies produced will be solid black (as the dilute gene is recessive, and the father does not have the dilute gene), but ALL the puppies will carry the dilute gene, as that's the "colour" inherited from the mother.
 

Piratebears

New member
It's the same as with the breeding a brown to a black. Just replace the colour brown with the dilute-gene.

All the puppies produced will be solid black (as the dilute gene is recessive, and the father does not have the dilute gene), but ALL the puppies will carry the dilute gene, as that's the "colour" inherited from the mother.
Mother carries brown - but father will be solid black - am I correct that NONE of the puppies will carry Brown ?
 

Piratebears

New member
negative. Sulley's mama is brown, his papa black, and he is black with recessive brown
This is because pup will always carry the colour that a parent is as a recessive - so as your babies Mum in brown - pup will carry brown - but my pups Mum will be grey - so they will carry grey,but Mum is brown recesive - so i dont think they will carry brown,but not 100% sure
 

new_2_newf

New member
sorry, i only half thought that through before i posted it. I wouldn't think that the pups would carry brown, but I really don't know.
 

Capri

New member
Mum is grey - brown recessive. Dad is black (no brown, no grey):

- puppies will appear black, but they will ALL carry grey, and 50% have the chance of carrying brown also.

Simplified:
mum: Bbdd
dad: BBDD

puppies:
when the B alleles cross, there are four different B-pairs to be made (always one from mum, one from dad), so the puppies can get:
BB, BB, Bb, Bb

and when the D alleles cross (four different D-pairs, always one D from mum, one D from dad), the puppies can get [didn't have enough colours, so just follow the same logic as with above and the B-alleles]:
Dd, Dd, Dd or Dd.

Then you just mix & match the B's and the D's: the genotypes you will get are:
BBDd (50%) and BbDd (50%)
 
Last edited:
The problem with this type of color genetics is the possibility of a cream puppy. I believe a cream is produced when a puppy expresses both the brown and dilute gene. It isnt anything you should have to worry about in these pups (IF the Sire is dominant black), but it is something you need to be aware of if you keep any pups and breed them in the future. Another thing you need to be aware of is the tendency for some greys to have coat problems, so is something to be on the lookout for.
 

Piratebears

New member
Thanks.We've always had greys and as yet no coat problems - but our blacks have had coat problems! we have heard stories of greys getting cancer and heart problems etc but personally i dont think that has any thing to do with the coat colour.
None of our have CDA - And the main reason we are breeding her to a solid black and I am checking on the possible colours her progeny would carry is to ensure the correct route for the progeny should they be bred from,but IMO Temprement and health come first and colour second - has caused a stir but hey ho! have known people that would turn down breeding from a grey,but would breed from non heart tested stock giving the pups a death sentence . . .grr
OK - Off soap box now ! lol
 
we have heard stories of greys getting cancer and heart problems etc but personally i dont think that has any thing to do with the coat colour.
As far as I know, there are no serious health problems associated with coat color in Newfs....even the "off-color" coats such as the brown and whites, creams, and grey and whites. In some breeds, non-standard colors are associated with health issues (ie...white boxers and dobes being deaf etc)
I do believe there are can be some differences, most notably the tendency of some Landseers to be quite active compared to the solid colors.
 

jill

New member
I am NOT a breeder, but I swear that my Landseer has NEVER been as healthy as her solid black sister/litter mate....
 

Piratebears

New member
Hi all,a few months on I am just coming back to this thread - I bred Grey Mum to solid black Dad.
8 Black pups ( though two are slight mis marks - white paw,
white tip to tail)
We want to keep a pup - Mum is brown recessive Dad wasnt - so 50% will carry brown ? I therefore need to DNA test ?
 

newfvo

New member
No, all puppies will be grey recessive due to dam actually being grey. Up to 25% could be brown recessive as dam will not have passed her recessive on to all offspring.
 

Pipelineozzy

New member
I don't believe that there is any "health" issue related to color specifically, but have seen the coat issue in grey. In the ones I have seen, it was a much lighter coat, and the pups ears were "velvet" rather than having the normal long hair on them. This particular pup was perfectly healthy..he'd just never need his ears trimmed lol!! I don't know what he looked like as an adult as I have not seen him since he was four months, but he WAS healthy in all respects other than looking a bit funny with normal floof on his head and naked ears. The other grey in the litter was completely normal coat.
 

Windancer

New member
Just because a parent is recessive does not mean the offspring will be... even if both parents are recessive....example....two black/landseer recessive are bred. Some pups will be landseer, some black recessive and some black NOT recessive, or carriers.
 

Pipelineozzy

New member
True..if they are just CARRYING a recessive. If you breed a landseer, which IS a recessive..ALL of the offspring WILL carry it. If a dog is WEARING a recessive color..then that's all they have to offer to their pups...and every pup will get that recessive. IN the case of blacks that carry a recessive..it's 50/50 or thereabouts.
 

janices

New member
Hi all,a few months on I am just coming back to this thread - I bred Grey Mum to solid black Dad.
8 Black pups ( though two are slight mis marks - white paw,
white tip to tail)
We want to keep a pup - Mum is brown recessive Dad wasnt - so 50% will carry brown ? I therefore need to DNA test ?
How much white? Basically as they grow the white recedes. So, unless it's a big patch may just about disappear.

One of the irish spotted boys I have here a couple of white paws are now just white toe tips.
 
Top